(UPDATE: Saddam executed) Saddam to be hanged by Sunday

You also have to read a prayer before you cut the head off to make the meat Halal. Its weird but Halal meat tastes better usually....could it be the draining of the blood? Not sure.

 

this has nothing to do with bush. the trial could have been used as a truth and reconiliation affair. it could have brought together various segments of iraq to unite and stand up against a brutal dictator. it could have brought truth and honor and justice to those kurds and shias that were brutally repressed as well as the many sunnis. granted we have this trichotomous paradigm now but saddam was not exactly wonderful to the sunni arabs as a whole either.

however this execution was done for and by the shia arabs. to execute him on the sunni eid to execute him before the trial of the anfal butcher could even really start hurts the country. if you read the post you'll see that even the executioners are praising muqtada al sadr.

any level headed person shouldn't believe the ends justify the means. the trial was not fair. the first judge resigned because he was under intense pressure to not be fair. the second judge was sacked because of that. there were 5 defense lawyers killed. the trial had many systemic problems which preclude it from being a fair trial according to international norms. read more on the human rights watch website.

look no one is defending him. no one is saying he's was not (along with kim) the most brutal dictator of our time. no one is denying he gassed tens of thousands (if not a couple hundred thousand) and frankly the point isn't even the US complicity or not. no one is even arguing about the death penalty being wrong in all cases pretty much everywhere in the western world. the point is we took this incredible opportunity to really bring justice and establish the rule of law and expose his crimes and made it a vigilante execution.

im not ideological in my hate against bush. im ideological about the system of law and justice. i want to claim my moral highground. i dont want to stoop to the level of others. law is critical to a society. the ends do not justify the means. and yes this is analogous to invading iraq illegally in order to stop them from breaking UN resolutions. ends do not justify the means there and they dont here.

and at the end of this all it doesn't really matter. 600,000 iraqis have died so far. and probably another 600,000 will die before the end of it. 3,000 of our kids have died for this mess. hundreds of billions of dollars have been wasted. if you take solace that all those lives are gone by at least saddam is either good for you. i however dont value his life that much.

 

Juan Cole...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/12/30/saddam/

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7532034279766935521

 

Looks like he had a clean neck snap. He got lucky.

 

make sure you make some popcorn before watching that.

 

how come there was a prayer being read and before it was finished they pulled the trigger? seemed like it was hurried.

 

If you listen closely, as they are reading Saddam his prayer, you can hear someone yell "psyche" and then they pull the lever.

 

...is an idiot?

 

And yet he's been right about most things Iraq. Hmmm.

 

to be honest you didn't have to be a brain surgeon to realize iraq was going to end up in a mess.

 

My comment was directed more towards basso, who has been verifiably wrong on many things Iraq rather than a primary defense of Cole.

 

Not sure, but the draining of the blood is probably good for your health. I try not to think of how the animal is killed while I'm eating it.

My uncle owned a shop in New Jersey: he told the Muslims his meat was Halal, he told the Jews his meat was Kosher, everyone was happy.

 

my bad. dont let me stop you from basso bashing.

 

all seems a bit too late really.

Like about 10 years too late!

what does it really achieve now? Its a detriment more than anything.

 

Conflicts Shaped Two Presidencies

U.S., Iraq Continue to Experience Aftereffects of Their Confrontations

By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 31, 2006; A21

The day after he ordered a cease-fire and brought the Persian Gulf War to a close, President George H.W. Bush ruminated about the status quo he had left behind in Iraq. "Still no feeling of euphoria," he dictated to his diary Feb. 28, 1991. Saddam Hussein, he recognized, remained a threat. "He's got to go," Bush concluded.

It took nearly 16 years, but he's finally gone. And with Hussein's execution in Baghdad, so is the chief nemesis of the Bush family, a man who bedeviled father-and-son presidents and in different ways dominated both of their administrations. The long, tortured arc of the Bush-Hussein relationship that shaped recent U.S. history finally came to a close with the snap of a noose.

If there is a feeling of euphoria, or satisfaction, or perhaps just relief, neither Bush is expressing it publicly this weekend. President Bush went to bed Friday night without waiting for the execution and left it to an aide to release a statement praising the Iraqi people for "bringing Saddam Hussein to justice." His father remained silent. But Hussein's death removed only the man. The forces unleashed by the epic struggle remain as powerful and crippling as ever for two countries.

The timing of the execution, coming as the president searches for a new strategy to turn around a war he says the United States is not winning, could serve as a reminder of its origins. Bush has frequently cited Hussein's tyranny to justify his decision to invade Iraq. Within days, though, the death toll of U.S. troops will surely pass 3,000, a grim milestone that will trigger further national introspection. The cost of overthrowing Hussein and ending his reign of terror continues to mount, and few in Washington hold out faith that that will change anytime soon.

"The sacrifice has been worth it," Bush said at a year-end news conference nine days before the execution. A few moments later, he added: "I haven't questioned whether or not it was right to take Saddam Hussein out." He stopped himself. "I mean, I've questioned it -- I've come to the conclusion that it was the right decision."

Bush and other architects of the war have long maintained that it was nothing personal. "I personally never thought of it that way, nor did I think the president saw it that way," said Douglas J. Feith, the former undersecretary of defense who was a key player in going to war. "When Saddam was talked about, he was talked about as a threat to the United States, not as a personal problem of the Bush family."

Ron Kaufman, a White House aide to the first President Bush, said his ex-boss does not dwell on Hussein. "I'm sure like most Americans, he'll be glad the guy's gone," he said. "The world will be a better place now, a safer place. But I don't think he'll spend any more time thinking about it than you or I."

Yet the history of animosity between the Bushes and Hussein is hard to ignore. The relationship actually began as one of pragmatic friendship in the 1980s, when Hussein was at war with the main U.S. enemy in the region, Iran, and George H.W. Bush was vice president in an administration that offered him help. A 1992 New Yorker article suggested that Bush, through Arab intermediaries, advised Hussein to intensify the bombing of Iran.

Hussein soon became too much to handle. "People came to understand him as someone who was much less stable and someone who could not be trusted," said Craig Fuller, chief of staff to the elder Bush when he was vice president. Hussein's invasion of Kuwait in August 1990 proved a strategic miscalculation that put him and the Bushes forever on opposite sides.

The elder Bush wrongly assumed that Iraqis would overthrow Hussein, and his decision not to march to Baghdad after freeing Kuwait would haunt him and his son. An unbowed Hussein defied the international community, and in April 1993, when Bush went to Kuwait for a hero's welcome, a group of Iraqis crossed the border in what was called a thwarted attempt to kill him. President Bill Clinton launched 23 Tomahawk missiles against Iraqi targets in retaliation.

Among those on that trip who could have been killed were Barbara Bush and Laura Bush. George W. Bush had stayed in Texas, where he was running the Texas Rangers baseball team and preparing to run for governor. Some later questioned the seriousness of the assassination attempt or its connections to Baghdad. But the incident clearly was a searing moment for the Bush family.

By the time the younger Bush ran for president, he appeared determined not to repeat the mistake he believed his father made with Hussein. "No one envisioned him still standing," the candidate told BBC in November 1999. "It's time to finish the task."

At a debate a couple of weeks later, Bush was more explicit. "If I found that in any way, shape, or form that he was developing weapons of mass destruction, I'd take him out," he said.

At Bush's first National Security Council meeting after taking office, he seemed to some aides to be ready to go. "From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go," Paul O'Neill, Bush's first treasury secretary, later told CBS News. In Ron Suskind's book, "The Price of Loyalty," O'Neill was quoted as saying that Bush told aides to prepare to remove Hussein: "That was the tone of it, the president saying . . . 'Go find me a way to do this.' "

Others on the inside came to a similar conclusion. In a memo in March 2002, Peter Ricketts, a top British official, sounded skeptical of U.S. motivations: "For Iraq, 'regime change' does not stack up. It sounds like a grudge between Bush and Saddam."

That impression was fueled by both father and son that fall. "I hate Saddam Hussein, and I don't hate a lot of people," George H.W. Bush told CNN. "I don't hate easily, but I think he is -- as I say, his word is no good, and he is a brute. He has used poison gas on his own people. So, there's nothing redeeming about this man, and I have nothing but hatred in my heart for him."

Six days after that aired, his son mused about Hussein at a Texas fundraiser. "There's no doubt his hatred is mainly directed at us," he said. "There's no doubt he can't stand us. After all, this is the guy that tried to kill my dad at one time."

Bush later talked with then-Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (R-Ill.) aboard Air Force One about assassinating Hussein, saying he would repeal the executive order banning assassination of foreign leaders if intelligence gave him a clear shot. "The fact that he tried to kill my father and my wife shows the nature of the man," Bush told interviewers in March 2003. "And he not only tried to kill my father and wife, he's killed thousands of his own citizens." But he denied a vendetta. "Nah, no," he said. "I'm doing my job as the president, based upon the threats that face this country."

When Bush launched the invasion weeks later, he ordered it to start earlier than planned with a missile strike targeting Hussein. The Iraqi leader survived, but U.S. troops quickly toppled his government. Soldiers went to the Al Rashid Hotel and destroyed a mosaic, of the elder Bush's face over the slogan "Bush Is Criminal," that Hussein had laid in the lobby entrance so every guest would step on it.

Eight months later, other soldiers found Hussein in a "spider hole." "President Bush sends his regards," one soldier told the disheveled Iraqi leader.

Then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld delivered the news in Washington. "Mr. President, the first reports are not always accurate," he started cautiously.

"This sounds like it's going to be good news," Bush interrupted.

Rumsfeld said reports indicate "that we got Saddam Hussein."

"Well, that is good news."

Aides said the president made a point of not personalizing it. "I never heard him take any particular relish in Saddam's capture or the fate that obviously awaited him," said Matthew Scully, a former White House speechwriter who helped prepare Bush's remarks about Hussein's capture. "I remember vividly that the president's reaction that day was kind of businesslike. He always saw Saddam as part of the larger picture."

Still, in his White House study, the president keeps a memento -- the pistol taken from Hussein when he was captured. If there ever was a duel, it is now over.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000663_pf.html

 

how can you tell? that video sucks... you see him fall and then its pretty much looking at the floor until the end.

hopefully there's another video.

 

That seemed like an easy out for Saddam. They should've at least stacked him on top of a nake guy pyramid and taken pictures of a hillbilly woman pointing at his crotch. He deserved far worst.

 

Exactly my thoughts.


The video is of poor quality, and doesn't even really confirm a death...