UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. I. LEWIS LIBBY, also known as "SCOOTER LIBBY"

That very well might be the case but that is still problematic as justice hasn't fully been carried out. If the judge didn't feel that he could handle dealing with classified info that then goes along the lines of terrorism suspects who can't mount a defense because they need classified info. Libby's defense that his memory was poor was problematic defense and it seems odd to me that he wouldn't want to also use the defense that there wasn't a crime, or at least he didn't think there was a crime. What not allowing the issue of Plame's status in the case IMO does is guarentee grounds for an appeal. That might be the case as the Judge might've felt that it would be better to move such issues along to another court.

That is obviously what he was tried on but that IMO is a very problematic prosecution and opens up a slippery slope regarding to what extent someone should cooperate with a prosecution. For instance if someone knew that they were engaged in something that is illegal then they can refuse to cooperate on Fifth ammendment grounds. If someone though didn't know somethng was illegal, weren't sure or just wanted to cover up something embarrassing but legal then the prosecutor can force them to testify under threat of obstructing justice. Prosecutors do this and in this case it looks like not only did Fitzgerald do this he was also willing to pass on pursuing convictions of the original crime. In that case it still seems like an argument could be made by Libby that this was an overzealous prosecution that was looking for a conviction and seeking to make Libby the fall guy even at sparing others who admitted to the original crime. At that point the status of Plame is still material regarding showing that while uncooperative Libby was never knowingly covering up a crime.

Ironically this is similar to the Clinton case where Clinton was never charged for a crime related to Whitewater but for perjuring himself in regard to something that came up in the matter of the investigation and for something that wasn't a crime but politically embarrassing. Libby might or might not have considered Plame covert but wanted to hide it since outing Plame would be politically embarrassing.

 

Not quite, as the classified info is evidence used in the prosecution of the person accused of terrorism while in this case it was not directly tied to the charges of perjury, lying, and obstruction.

I don't think it does provide grounds for appeal. Again, Libby's team could have pursued and pressed the issue about Plame's status but it wasn't directly tied to the charges and if they had succeeded in getting it in to court, there was good chance it would work against them. They made a decision not to press the issue and now Libby's defenders are blaming the prosecution and the judge for something that was really up to the Defense.

Scooter was free to take the 5th, but he consciously mislead investigators and the Grand Jury while betting he wouldn't get caught. If he had taken the 5th, he would have had to resign. If he testified truthfully, it's a solid bet he would have opened up the VP to charges. Scooter was in a no-win situation, but there is a difference between being framed and being a fall guy. He was involved in the dealings up to his eyeballs. He was not an innocent bystander by any means.

To make the point (which I should have made in earlier posts responding to some of basso's posts), while Armitage was the one to tell Novak, the first known discussion between a member of the administration and the press about Plame was between Libby and Judith Miller.

As Fitzgerald said when announcing the indictments:

Libby wasn't just uncooperative, he lied and prevented the prosecutors, agents and grand jury from learning all the facts. The others cooperated and Fitzgerald either made deals to get the facts or decided the odds were against him in prosecuting them. Libby could have probably travelled the same road had he told the truth.

No, it's not really similar at all. Monica did not just come up in the matter of investigation. (I don't want to rehash Starr and Jones, etc., so go read about it yourself.) Libby's stuff came up in a legitimate investigation about a case involving national security. Ask yourself this... given all we know about this administration, what would another embarassment be? I think it's a good bet that Scooter lied, went to trial, got convicted, and will now serve time to cover up crimes, not just to head off embarassment. Would you go through what he did to cover up an embarassment? In this administration?

 

Yes, let's. Too bad we have to wait a few days.

 

[edit]Interesting analysis and I don't totally disagree with you but I think this trial was as cut and dried as you depict it. Its also not a miscarriage of justice as Basso depicts it either.[/edit]

Different charges but similar situation. If classified info could exonerate someone shouldn't they be allowed to use it? Not saying that it would've but it sounds like the judge simply choose not to deal with it at all.

Libby's attorney might have made a tactile error but for justice to be served they can still make the argument that things might've different if the Judge had allowed them to press a different defense strategy. In many cases incompetent defense doesn't rule out later appeals.

Libby was involved no doubt but as the jurors pointed out he did end up getting the short end of the stick from the rest of the conspirators. Whether he deserved it or not he is taking the brunt of punishment for this action. The other's certainly could've tried to cover up things and its not clear if Libby had cooperated he would've convicted the VP anymore than Rove could've convicted the President.

Except that many will argue that Whitewater was a legitmate investigation involving potential corruption on the part of the President and as has been repeatedly brought up that lying to a grand jury is a serious crime. As you're pointing out here that even though there was no conviction on an original crime it is still a serious matter to obstruct justice.

 

i assume you mean this trial was NOT as cut and dried as rimmy depicted it. in any case, I'm NOT trying to argue Libby is NOT guilty of the charges he's accused of. he may very well be. I AM arguing that the investigation seems to have run off course, and Libby's alledged crimes, serious tho they may be, do not rise to the level of what he and the admin have been accused of via, lies, slander, innuendo, and yes, graymail. Fitz has tried to have it both ways, by affirming in the indictment, and alledging in the trial, that plame's status was covert, and libby knew as much. if that's the case, then clearly a crime has been committed, and fitz knows by whom. yet, no charges have been filed.

and anyone who believes the truth will arise out of a congressional hearing, needs some of what andymoon has been smoking.

 

wasn't Clinton impeached for lying about something which was not criminal?

 

Then why did you try and pass off some GOP congressmens' additional comments as being the finding of a congressional committee?

If you don't believe any truth comes out of those things, it seems odd that you would post some of the least significant portions of congressional write-ups as something significant, and what you seemed to feel was the truth.

 

Dang, most of us use blunt objects to beat each other about the head and face. You, on the other hand, remind me of this guy...

 

I would normally ignore your attempt to disparage me as a pothead, but two weeks ago I stopped smoking cigarettes and as such am a bit edgy. As a result of all of this, I am happy to say...


F*** YOU, I don't smoke anything!!! BTW, when did you stop sucking t_j's c***?

 

my, you certainly are a bit edgy...and apparently homophobic as well. not a rudy fan, i'd imagine.

 

I am neither homophobic nor a Rudy fan (unless you are talking about the Sean Astin movie, in which case RU-DY, RU-DY...), just tossing out unfounded allegations like you are so fond of doing.

 

I'm late to the thread, but my two cents are that Libby was essentially found guilty of being a Republican. Basically the trial was a sham witch-hunt. The libs are just sore losers since they couldn't bring down Cheney or Rove. So they've got egg on their face there and just want a forum to vent. Typical divisive libpig behavior -- their self-interested politics first, America's best interest second. What else is new?

...and of course you've got the andymoon mental breakdown and subsequent discombobulation, a staple of any thread longer than 2 pages.

 

fitzgerald and the jury are all libpigs??

 

the jury was all liberals, yes. and if you read their comments you'll see that yes, they were "looking" for cheney and rove, so i think TJ is largely right. the case was largely one of he said/she said, and should never have been brought.

 

Howbout the prosecutor?

Just because the jurors were looking ofr rove/cheney then they're automatically liberals? are you saying 70% of the US are now libs?

So Libby didn't lie?

 

They were looking for Cheney and Rove because much of the evidence that damned Scooter either came out of Cheney's office (sometimes in his own handwriting) or was provided by Rove's Grand Jury testimony after he saw the light and fessed up just in time to smartly avoid Scooter's fate.

The case was not he said/she said. It was he said/she said she said she said she said she said she said she said she said.

 

You know if you substitute 'Republican' for 'libpig' its 1998 all over again..

 

I agree - that is pretty damning evidence these days.

 

Republicans / Conservatives are strong on law and order. Libby broke the law, he lied under oath.

your comment contradicts one of the tenets of the Republican party

actually you're the sore loser, over the fact one of your fellow phony Republicans got his t*** caught in the wringer.

 

I would gladly accept mental breakdown and discombobulation to unthinking, unquestioning, absolutely blind loyalty to someone as corrupt, stupid, and damaging to America as GWB.

Now run away and let the adults talk, a staple of any thread longer than 2 pages.