Union thugs rough up peaceful protestors at townhall meeting

There is only one liar here and it happens to be the one incessantly blathering about Obama's birth certificate.

I was unaware of that, but completely agree. The idiots who created this mess need to move out of the way so that the mess can be cleaned up. If you are not going to be part of the solution, you need to STFU and let the adults address the problem.

Again, given your history of lies, I will believe this when you provide evidence.

Again, given your history of lies, I will believe this when you provide evidence.

They are furious because of the exhortations of Rush, Beck and other winger morons telling them that they should be furious. Many also received talking points memos straight out of the insurance lobby's playbook, making it easy for any detached observer to see that they are little more than pawns of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

Link? Proof? See the statement above regarding your penchant for avoiding the truth.

Riiiiight. I'm the one with a credibility problem here.

You need to be a man and back up your lies. Put up or shut up, *****.

 

Is anyone else hearing their robo-voices, as per moestavern19's epic D&D clash video (volume I)? It's pretty funny.

 

I actually kind of feel sorry for Moon. Something in his personal life must have him down. He appears to be particularly frothy this afternoon with his name calling.

Cheer up, Andy!

 

I am perfectly happy. Things are going extremely well in my life. I just have zero patience for liars and your brother has a penchant for lying.

 

The Rethugs are not going to prevail uncontested in this one as they did when they Nazi storm trooped and prevented the recount in Florida. It ain't just them who can be violent.

There are 46 million people in the country hurting without insurance and they aren't going to let some rent a thugs from the insurance lobby stop them from getting insurance.

 

White House comments
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25891.html

Krugman's comments
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/opinion/07krugman.html?ref=opinion

Pelosi's comments
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...n_hall_protesters_are_carrying_swastikas.html


Boom! How's that pimphand feel upside your head, moon? Go milk your cat's teets.


OWNED

 

you honestly read this as a call by the WH to the democratic senators to start 'inciting violence'?

 

Glen Beck needs to be reeled in. Sure its funny -to some on his side - but to others its annoying and does nothing to further his OWN ideals.


That said, the administration has made some mistakes IMO in their handling of some of these situations. Beck and to a lesser extent Hannity need to just stick to reporting the facts. Thats what their station uses as a mission statement. Just stick to that. Leave the commentary and especially the outrageous commentary out of it. They will gain tons of viewers for "being the better man".

 

While I don't trust Obama's ability to come up with legislation that actually will work - how do you create a public plan that won't cause employers to stop giving health insurance, I have problems with this Town Hall protests the GOP/Hospital system is fomenting.

Yes, we know the plan as it stands won't work. But they haven't even finalized it. They are still working it out. Republicans can come in there and say, hey, if you want us to buy in, this is the problem you got to fix.

Instead, they are saying Obama wants to euthanize Sarah Palin's baby and your grandmother. That's a gross distortion of the truth and shows the GOP's true colors and design.

I think all of us on this thread - from Trader Jorge to Batman Jones all KNOW (but won't say) the same thing. It's not that hard to figure out what this is really about.

This isn't about getting 44 million Americans covered. We put a freaking man on the moon 40 years ago....health insurance IS NOT rocket science. It's complex, but if we can put a man on the moon, why can't we come up with a solution that works - that solves the employers dumping insurance since there is a public plan problem, and solves the let's not bankrupt the gov't problem. Those are the legit issues with this thing. Not the other junk/

But it's not about health care, what it is about is the GOP trying to weaken Obama. Ok, so the town halls are basically nothing more then a political infomercial. Dems are trying to "sell" reform to people.

Reps are trying to oppose it because they want Dems to look bad. The tables have been reversed, so it's not that one party is better than the other. But man, i am so tired of both of these political parties. It's a joke, it's hilarious, and it works because most people buy into the fear.

Using fear to control people is a bit sick if you ask me...and this is where I come down harshly on republicans. They aren't serving our nation right now, they are serving their party. I wish John McCain would stand up and give his "I don't put politics before country" speech now.

 

amen brutha

 

I think that's the problem of the insurance companies active now, and the wonderful thing about competition. Those current insurance companies have been raising costs all over the place. It will be up to them to cut costs so they can still get those business contracts.

I think it's the wrong approach to blame the entity(public option) which is finally going to provide some real competition in the field. It isn't up to them to make sure the insurance companies can compete. It's up to the insurance companies.

 

I am all for competition, but this isn't about fair competition.

Employers pay about 70-80% of the insurance premium. Employee about 10-20%.

If you have a public plan, that anyone can join, help me understand if i am missing something here, wouldn't every employer just dump offering health care since their employees could join the public plan. Why bother with private insurance anymore? It's not competing for the consumer, it's that an employer would simply rather pay nothing (public plan) vs cover their workers.

I mean, you cant require businesses to provide health insurance. Some garage start-up has to provide health care? Of course not.

You need a solution that doesn't incentivice employers to drop private insurance, private insurance can't compete with free. no one can.

 

The horror, the horror...

 

This is not correct. First of all, a public option provides no extra incentive for businesses to drop their health care coverage. Why don't they just drop it now?

 

Let's face it. They know and we know that they can't compete with the public option unless it is carefuly hamstrung so that it does not prevail; hence the franticness with which they fight it. They just provide no efficiency or added value to offset their additional costs.

It would be a huge blow to the near theology of the market as always best and the government can do nothing well but fight wars. This might even lead to the acceptance of more taxation for the wealthy for the good of the vast majority. Hence the franticness with which the real core of the GOP opposes a health care plan that challenges the insurance company bureaucrats.

 

The public plan isn't free. And most versions have it being a self-sustaining non-profit, meaning it would have to pay for itself through premiums. The UPS and FedEx can compete with the Postal Service by providing a better service. If health care companies can't provide a better or cheaper service than the gov't run option that you have to pay for, why should they even exist? It would mean that the gov't was doing a better job providing what consumers want.

 

If they dropped now, their employees would not be happy to be without insurance and their employees would go find a job that offered it.

But if there is a public option, employers have no incentive to pay into private insurance, they just drop it and let their employees pay for the public one.

 

Because the private insurers deliver their plans through employers - if you put a public plan directly to the people, employers will save money simply but notproviding insurance - they don't ahve to - their employees can just get the public option.

 

Yes, but I don't think that's all there is to write.

The legislation as it stands has two serious flaws.

One - it is not paid for - this is according too non-partisan sources. namely, the CBO.

Two - to prevent employers from dumping their plans to save money (since there's a public plan why should companies pay for health insurance right?) by enacting a penalty on them (Pay or Play). Problem is, a lot of experts say employers will take the penalty and in the end be better off.

So the penalty may not work, and you get a bunch of people with no health insurance and now stuck with the public plan....and that's a very bad thing.

 

Bottom line public national health care will not be free. It will just cost a lot less than that provided by private insurers.