i wonder if there's ever been as much scrutiny and second guessing over such a relatively short period of time. What's sometimes lost in the debate over Kerry's service, is that he only served four months of active duty. He is not a Wesley Clark, or Colin Powel for whom the military was a much more significant part of their lives, and therefore, likely a better guage of their character. Yet Kerry's supporters trumpet his heroics (which nobody should dispute) and service to a much greater extent than is probably warranted. Not trying to belittle his service -- just pointing out, and acknowledging, that in terms of his past, he is, in my opinion, somewhat guilty of hyperbole. I can understand the strategy -- given Bush and Cheney's past -- but do see how it could grind on some. I'm also dumbfounded by the extent to which Team Bush has gone to discredit the man's service. Truly dispicable, and indicative of the way Team Bush plays very dirty politics. They did it to McCain in 2000, and have come out even more fierce in the buildup to this election.
Before doing the Swift Boat thing, Kerry served a full tour on the USS Gridley off the coast of Vietnam. His four month tour was the Swift Boat assignment.
Kerry's Military Service from johnkerry.com... _______________ February 18, 1966 Kerry formally enlists in the U.S. Navy August 22, 1966 Kerry reports for Naval Officer Candidate School at the U.S. Naval Training Center in Newport, Rhode Island December 16, 1966 Kerry receives commission as an Ensign January 3, 1967 Kerry reports for duty at the Naval Schools Command at Treasure Island (CA)-Takes 10 week Officer Damage Control Course March 22, 1967 Reports to U.S. Fleet Anti-Air Warfare Training Center (CA). Receives training as a Combat Information Center Watch Officer. June 8, 1967 Kerry reports to USS Gridley-serves in several capacities February 9, 1968 USS Gridley departs for a Western Pacific (WESTPAC) deployment, to engage in operations in support of the Vietnam War. Ship spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand February 10, 1968 Kerry requests duty in Vietnam He lists his first preference for a position as an officer in charge of a Swift Boat (designated PCF for Patrol Craft Fast), his second as an officer in a patrol boat (designated PBR, for Patrol Boat River) squadron May 27, 1968 USS Gridley sets sail for the US June 6, 1968 Kerry arrives in Long Beach the day after Senator Robert F. Kennedy is killed in Los Angeles June 16, 1968 Kerry promoted to Lieutenant, Junior Grade July 20, 1968 Kerry leaves Gridley for specialized training at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, CA in preparation for service as commander of a Swift Boat. These unarmored, but heavily armed, fifty foot aluminum hulled patrol boats depended on speed and agility when engaging the enemy. November 17, 1968 Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam. December 1968 through January 1969 Kerry commands PCF-44 December 2, 1968 Kerry experiences first intense combat; receives first combat related injury. December 6, 1968 Kerry moved to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island December 13, 1968 Kerry moved to Coastal Division 13, Cam Ranh Bay December 24, 1968 Kerry involved in combat during the Christmas Eve truce of 1968. The truce was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around Lieutenant Kerry and his five-man crew. Reacting swiftly, John Kerry and his crew silenced the machine gun nest. January 22, 1969 Kerry and other Swift boat commanders travel to Saigon for meeting with Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, Commander Naval Forces Vietnam (COMNAVFORV), and Gen. Creighton Abrams, Commander United States Military Assistance Command Vietnam (COMUSMACV) Late January, 1969 Kerry joined his 5 man crew on PCF-94 Late January through Early March, 1969 Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of the Mekong Delta. Kerry's crew included engineman Eugene Thorson, later an Iowa cement mason; David Alston, then the crew's only African-American and today a minister in South Carolina; petty officer Del Sandusky of Illinois; rear gunner and quartermaster Michael Medeiros of California; and the late Tom Belodeau, who joined the crew fresh out of Chelmsford High School in Massachusetts. Others rotated in and out of the crew. The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of hell." February 20, 1969 Kerry and crew involved in combat; Kerry receives second combat injury – Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh. February 28, 1969 For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission. As the force approached the target area on the narrow Dong Cung River, all units came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than fifty-feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered his boat to attack as all units opened fire and beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. The daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers. The PCF gunners captured many enemy weapons in the battle that followed. On a request from U.S. Army advisors ashore, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered PCFs 94 and 23 further up river to suppress enemy sniper fire. After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats again were taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF-94; with utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed. The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission. His actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. March 13, 1969 For heroic achievement while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong communist aggressors in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 13 March 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94, one of five boats conducting a SEA Lords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry’s calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry is authorized to wear the Combat “V”. March 17, 1969 The policy of Coastal Squadron One, the swift boat command, was to send home any individual who is wounded three times in action. After sustaining his third wound from enemy action in Vietnam, Kerry was granted relief under this policy. Early April, 1969 Kerry departs Vietnam April 11, 1969 Kerry reports for duty at the Military Sea Transportation Service, U.S. Atlantic Fleet in Brooklyn, NY. January 1, 1970 Kerry promoted to (full) Lieutenant January 3, 1970 Kerry requests discharge March 1, 1970 Kerry’s date of separation from Active Duty April 29, 1970 Kerry listed as Registrant who has completed service
thanks! I did a quick google to see how long he was there as i understood it wasn't long. Four months didn't sound right, but its all i could find I just wish we could get off this topic -- and i wish he hadn't done the ol' " reporting for duty" bit -- as it just ads fuel to the nonesense! Shouldn't you be out fighting fires? Or are you on a well deserved rest? EDIT -- August '66 to March '70. More extensive than i thought. See what these campaigns of misinformation can do!
I doubt that; nearly every thread started in this forum at least about it usually has to deal with some aspect of the dubious Republican Tet offensive being waged against him. Similarly, while Kerry alludes to Vietnam in general on the campaign trail and his campaign website, inter alia, prominently features it, he very rarely goes into details about the experience in most of his speeches. Again, the fact that this is even contemplated as an issue and we even beginning to question his record next to that of the fake flyboy is a testament to the effectiveness of the right wing echo chamber and its various minions and their well stocked array of talking points.
Kerry does more than allude to his service. It's a cornerstone of his campaign's portrayal of his character. The 'reporting for duty' bit at the DNC was not ad-libbed. It was deliberate. I'm just pondering here -- agreeing that his campaign does spend an inordinate amount of time on his service. A friend commented on the weekend that you would have thought he'd had a career in the military by his campaigns portrayal of him -- and i thought that that was a valid observation. Not in any way validating the butchering of his service record by Bush and Co. Just food for thought. By the way, I think you are being too kind in referring to the Bush mud-fest as a tet offensive.
It's a really slow year... Alaska went nuts for awhile, but for everything else, the local folks seem to be handling things well. Our Prevention message seems to be working... major drop-off in human-caused starts...
I think the perception that all Kerry does is talk about his military service is not wholly accurate however and that such perception is the product of attack ads and talking points. ("Why won't Kerry talk about what he did in the Senate? blah blah blah, most liberal senator EVAR!1!!!!!!") Again, read his speeches; he make general allusions about service and sacrifice and the parlays it into a discussion of nationbuilding, etc. As for it being the cornerstone as the portrayal of his character in particular -- I don't disagree with that; and I think that that area of his life is probably the most important in both the formation of his character and probably represents the expression of his core beliefs in an extreme situation -- I think if you had been through the same thing, you would agree. But that is but one aspect of his campaign.
It means that he entered the Navy rather than be drafted... because he thought the Navy duty to be less dangerous. I think it is untrue that he volunteered to drive swift boats into enemy fire, although it is true that he volunteered for swift boat duty. The story I've heard is that the mission of the swift boats changed after he joined the Navy. I'm not challenging his heroism for doing it period, just the notion that he chose such a dangerous duty voluntarily. BTW, that story doesn' jibe with his early departure from the Navy.
If he wanted less dangerous duty he could have stayed on the vessel that wasn't even close to combat in Viet Nam. The fact that he volunteered for Swift boat duty would have put him closer to the action than he already was. To say he only served 4 months is incorrect.
from the Washington Post, July 15, 1992... The Bush reelection campaign today filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission against Floyd Brown, a conservative activist who produced the infamous Willie Horton ad in 1988 and recently has been digging for dirt about Bill Clinton. ... Speaking in San Diego after a meeting with Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari, Bush said, "We will do whatever we can to stop any filthy campaign tactics," and "we will do whatever we can ... to see that [Brown] does not use my name for these nefarious purposes." The 364 contributors listed on Brown's FEC reports have received letters from the Bush campaign informing them that Brown's "Citizens for Bush" is not affiliated with Bush/Quayle '92, according to a statement by White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater. The same message -- and encouragement not to contribute to Brown's effort -- also went to 85,697 "major contributors" over the signature of the president's son, George W. Bush.
and it's also great to see the dems distancing themselves in the same fashion from those who spew unfounded vitriol from the left...oh, wait...
That's right; some guy posted a hitler-bush ad on moveon.org, so that excuses the past 30 years of sanctioned, official campaign mudslinging and racebaiting. And I guess that unwillingness to dig into Clinton's past really set a tone back in 92, didn't it? Nice, nice, nice.
"It means that he entered the Navy rather than be drafted... because he thought the Navy duty to be less dangerous." ~giddy Giddy, you've been reaching so much lately, I'm worried that you're going to pull a muscle. Did Kerry tell you that that was why he went into the Navy? You had a conversation with him? And, as you know quite well, and I haven't a clue whether this affected his decision or not... same as you, it is amazingly common for people up for the draft to enlist in a service that they prefer. They do it for a host of reasons... it offers a better opportunity to do something of interest, personally or in a future career. It gives them some choice about what they do in the military, instead of that being totally left up to chance. And on and on. The idea that Kerry did this because it was less dangerous is strictly something you pulled out of your hat. People have been joining the Navy, when they knew they were up for the draft, or joining the Marines, for the same reason, since WWII. I know veterans personally who chose the Navy and enlisted before they were drafted during WWII because they decided they wanted to and they could. Geez. This election cycle is getting beyond rediculous.
actually, i was referring to MM and his place of honor next to former ace nukular negotiator jimmy carter at the DNC...
If you haven't heard the people in this forum disagree with MM and disavow his messages then you haven't been listening.
Well, granted, MadMax is a damned fool and a persistent agitator, and a known equine sympathizer, as well as a leap year crossdresser, but I wouldn't go so far as to cast aspersions on his character in the fashion that you just did.
BTW, I love how pissed Clinton was last night. It's about time the Democrats stop acting like little p*****s and fight back!
