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Understanding Radicalization: 'How ISIS Brainwashed Me'

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sweet Lou 4 2, Mar 27, 2016.

  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    There's a lot of people here and elsewhere saying that a book is a virus and it's contents radicalize people. The problem with this is that it not only leads to a lot of xenophobia against Muslims, it also set-ups the wrong problem solve - that Islam itself is the problem.

    People talk about the Muslims who conduct these terrorist attacks and understandably come to the conclusion that it must be Islam (over any other religion). How does someone become a radical Islamic follower from a being a moderate Muslim who might not even be a strong adherent???

    I thought this article was enlightening in showing how recruitment takes place...and indeed radicalization....of a Christian by Jihadists!

    'How ISIS Brainwashed Me', an American Young Girl Speaks



    Enticing the Lonely



    Crossing a Line




    Applying Pressure




    Family Intervention


     
  2. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    I'm waiting for...

    Understanding Radicalization: How Fox News and Talk Radio Brainwashed Me.
     
  3. RocketsLegend

    RocketsLegend Member

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    How Obama brainwashed me. What happened to that "change" I was promised.
     
  4. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    Exhibit A
     
  5. RocketsLegend

    RocketsLegend Member

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    Exhibit A
     
  6. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    Any original ideas of your own or is copying/pasting your substitute? Perhaps head over to Facebook or YouTube and post a snarky stupid video from your feed? Just trying to help a Trumpette out over here.
     
  7. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Pay tucker
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    Bro, if there is anything you should not be calling out at the moment---its promises. Trump has made the most ludicrous promises ever made
     
  8. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Does anyone want to discuss radicalization or are people just stuck on politics here?
     
  9. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Whats to discuss? You believe radicalization is the problem and not Islam in itself. Its like the ignorant meme going around stating how there are a billion muslims, and if Islam was a religion of violence, we would all be dead.

    There are parallels to be made with the bible. There are those who are quick to hate on Christianity and often defend Islam. True Christianity is follow Jesus Christ, which very plainly states to "turn the other cheek" and "love everyone". If Christians made their faith revolving around the old testament (which ironically, that is what Islam is), there would be a lot more Christian extremism. The most intolerant Christian tend to focus more on the OT than they probably should.

    That said, intolerance is the seed to extremism and Islam is full of it. Couple it with poverty, generations of scorn and stringent governments, it is no surprise.
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Sounds like you have been getting your dose of right wing indoctrination to the point you can't even consider other possibilities. Did you even read the article?

    Sad that you have such a biased view of history and don't even know much about Christianity's violent past.
     
  11. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    The fact that you don't know the GOP obstructed the change you were promised is proof positive you were brainwashed by Fox.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Christianity has the wiggle room for reformation primarily because of the distinction between the Old and New Testament.

    I think the issue here is everyone here is misrepresenting what the other person is claiming. Space Ghost believes that you don't attribute ANY of Islamic extremism to theological aspects of Islam while you believe posters like ATW, Space Ghost and me attribute EVERYTHING about Islamic extremism to Islam itself. Yes, obviously socioeconomic factors have some influence to an extent.

    The "Christians used to do it" apologetics irk me quite a bit. Let's ignore the fact that the way Christianity was exploited during the Middle Ages is almost the complete opposite of how Islam is exploited. The Catholic Church had the monopoly on the literate educated who could understand the Bible. Quote mining and ignoring Jesus's message was extremely easy. They controlled the interpretation of Christianity at least before the printing press. The printing press allowed the Bible to be translated into native languages around Europe which allowed individuals to have their own interpretation which was a large part of the Christian reformation.

    Illiteracy is a weak excuse today. A large portion of ISIS, Al Qaeda fighters are 100% literate in Arabic. There is no deception here. A honest interpretation of the Quran AND the life of the prophet can lead to organizations like ISIS.

    It all stems from the most venerated figures of the two faiths, Jesus and Mohammad. Ironically, even though Jesus is a literal deity in Christian lore, Islam places a greater importance on emulating their most venerated figure. Like I stated before, many Muslims place so much importance on emulating Muhammad that many Muslim men don't even stand and pee because it's 'sunnah' because the prophet didn't stand and pee. So you have a glorified virgin hippy who was vocal about being anti-establishment(for his time) versus Muhammad. Now keep in mind that everything I state about Muhammad is accepted by pretty much every mainstream Sunni scholar. So many Muslims believe that a man who assassinated a woman with her infant child sleeping next to her because she was vocal about believing that he was a false prophet is the best human to emulate for rest of time on this dunya(temporal world). He also held sex slaves which is also not disputed by Sunni scholars. He married a 6 year old which also not disputed by a large majority of Sunni scholars. He was the leader of many OFFENSIVE 'preemptive' raids on villages for simply not accepting his message that he is the last prophet of Allah.

    Sweet Lou, you do not see how there is a distinct difference here? You think making a man like Muhammad as the best example of a moral human has any negative intended consequences that make it inherently an Islamic problem?
     
    #12 fchowd0311, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
    2 people like this.
  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    You state that the problem is not with Islam itself, which you are alluding you are supporting Islam at worst, sympathies at best.

    Let me as you this: Why do you sympathies with a religion that CLEARLY encourages bigotry, treats women as second class and views the rest of the world as outsiders? Isnt this the COMPLETE opposite of a liberal?

    Or are you so left wing indoctrinated that you really believe every American Christian has a sole responsibility of voting Republican and are bigoted to those they dont agree with?

    News flash Sweet Lou, there is a large segment of American Christians who are democrat and reject the traditional Christian church of bigotry.
    Since you have a weak grasp of Christianity, let me break it down for you. There are Christians, which implies "Christ-like", that follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, which can be found in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Jesus does not advocate any type of violence at all, whether you are a perpetrator or victim. He does not advocate any forms of bigotry.
    Then there are the Christians who follow the apostles doctrine, which includes all of the new testament. Here you start finding some inconsistencies with Christ.
    Then you have those who embrace the Old Testament, which can range from casual to extreme. Unfortunately and generally speaking, this is the foundation of American Christianity and for centuries past. Its also being more commonly rejected.

    That said, yes, I fully understand Christianities violent past. And that is exactly my point. Regardless of your book, if your moral code embraces bigotry, then a person can be seeded with anything. I can't speak for the Koran, but the Bible does not completely represent Christianity, and speaking as a matter of fact, only a small fraction of it does. If you took the time to understand the Bible, you would also know there are many different versions of it.(and i dont mean translations)

    Here is the sole issue I have with modern Islam; Muslims are extremely passive about what is being done in their name. Its not uncommon to find Muslims who may denounce the violence, but passively blames the actions on others such as "If your country wasn't going around invading and meddling in other countries". That is on par with blaming a woman who was just raped for wearing revealing clothing.

    You shouldn't defend a religion who refuses to come out of the dark ages.
     
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    As usual........ you put it almost perfectly.
     
  15. myco

    myco Contributing Member
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    Please stop defending Muhammad's honor.
     
    #15 myco, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  16. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Why are many people in western nations converting to Islam? What is its attraction? I can understand if you grow up under the religion, but I do not see why it is attractive to non Muslims, especially those who already have a religion.
     
  17. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Point is people who hold Christianity as the pure contrasting example to Islam don't know its history. Nearly any religion can lead to extremism and violence. Socio-economic factors can also play a role.

    But what people tend to ignore is the west's role in radical Islam, which prior to colonialism didn't have much traction at all. Pre-World War II it was not a violent movement around killing that it has become today.

    What people ignore is that post-WWII in an effort to create a hedge against Soviet expansion in the middle east, the U.S. allied itself with extremist elements and weaponized them - even before Afghanistan - across the middle east. Why do you think Wahhabism grew to be so strong? You should know this - it was U.S. support and all that oil money. The Iranian revolution was nonviolent and was to a large degree against perceived western influence and colonialism like control of the country. In Afghanistan, Islamists were brutally oppressed and with U.S. and Wahhabist support, foreign fighters came to their aid to fight the soviets thus setting off the domino effect that led to groups like the Taliban and Jamat-ul-Ahrar (which split from the Taliban). ISIS came from Al Qaeda which was formed from fighters in Afghanistan. That covers nearly every major bombing against the west - they all came from fighters in Afghanistan who were backed by the U.S. and the U.K. and the house of Saud.

    Yet you guys keep crying "IT'S ISLAM IT'S ISLAM" and point to some book as this poisonous text that if someone reads it they magically become a suicide bomber.

    It's not really socioeconomic. It's more a reaction against colonialism and the idea that the West sees the Muslim world as inferior (which is true) and something they can exploit for the advancement of Judeo-Christians across the globe.

    It's more political than anything else.

    People don't understand the history, they just want to say, "OH Muhammad was a violent pediophile" and that's the reason people strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up in airports. It is a very small part of what is going on here. You guys are trying to solve the wrong problem.
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I don't think there is an abnormally high number of Muslim converts. It's just many Muslims prop up a white convert as a kind of advertising gimmick for Islam: "Look white people can be Muslim also". So any instance of a westerner converting to Islam is overly publicized by Islamic apologists. There are FAR MORE western converts of something like Buddhism than Islam. Islam's growth rate is pretty much 99.9% sustained by birth rates. In fact, I bet there are far more apostates than converts with a significant portion of those apostates in the closet due to the implications of persecution.
     
    #18 fchowd0311, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    No, people blowing themselves up IS EXACTLY because of religion. It's the religious aspect of their motives that allow them to kill themselves. For your information, most humans enjoying living. If you implement a notion that this temporal life is just that, temporal, and that there is a significant reward after this temporal world, obviously we would love to achieve that reward.

    Islam comes into play because they believe that their martyrdom is justified by Allah and the prophet. If it wasn't, they wouldn't kill themselves. It doesn't serve their self-interest.

    Anyways, Swet Lou, you didn't even make an attempt to counter any of my points explicitly. You just regurgitated the same exact information.
     
  20. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the explanation.
     

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