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Understanding How Well Lin & Beverley Are Playing In 2013 Preseason

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by PhiSlamma, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. conquistador#11

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    easy solution,
    harden at the four, Dwight/harden/chandler/lin/ bev.

    second solution, 30plus minutes from the bench by lin.

    third solution, trade lin and bev for CPflop


    all solutions are a win win.
     
  2. PhiSlamma

    PhiSlamma Member

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    Totally agree, man. I mean, this is awesome! It will come down, the level, but still this is exciting. It doesn't matter who starts if these two play this way, IMO.

    By the way, Beverley's EPM for tonight is 0.692. So his number just inched up even further!

    I love this team.
     
  3. verysimplejason

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    Looking at today's game, it's clear that Rockets really misses Lin's playmaking. PBev is really good but his assists didn't define the game. +1, they both bring different facet to the game. Starting should be done on per game basis and whatever the team really needs for a particular game. Is it defense or offense? I also hope we can do that with Harden but a max player will and should always start.
     
  4. PhiSlamma

    PhiSlamma Member

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    Sorry, I answered your question wrong. Let me try again.

    Lin MPG = 26.0 (through 3 games)
    Bev MPG = 23.3 (through 3 games)

    Lin EPG = 18.3 (through 3 games)
    Bev EPG = 16.0 (through 3 games)

    The EPM stat is the same per game, just because it is an average stat whereas the other stats were total stats from the 3 games.

    Because Patrick has played fewer minutes (and efficiency usually correlates with minutes [it usually goes up as you play more minutes]), you need to do something like EPM to get an idea of how guys who play different numbers of minutes are doing.

    These numbers are huge. Yes, Kelvin Cato blocked 12 shots in a preseason game once and preseason is not the same as the regular season, but I'll take the great stats for both guys.
     
  5. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Beverley demonstrating a little bit of his flaws tonight: only 3 assists and 4 TOs.

    But at the same time his strengths as well, outside shooting, and a ridiculous team leading 9 rebounds from your starting PG.
     
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  6. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    Beverley's incredibly low usage rate is an absolute gem in today's NBA, and yet you guys get hung up on simplistic assist totals. He's doing exactly what he needs to do (to ensure our best chance at winning) in a lineup with Harden, Dwight and Parsons.

    The impact he makes without the ball is unparalleled from his position, which is 99% full of AAU-groomed ball-dominant talents who end up hurting their team's ball movement (and consequently reduce their chances of victory) with their style of play. Why do you think no star PGs, outside of the non-ball-dominant Billups/Parker have won titles in the modern era (since '91)? Ball-dominant PGs are a detriment to ball-movement, which is one of the biggest keys in championship teams.

    Don't get me wrong, this team needs Lin's scoring and playmaking ability...it just doesn't need it all the time, and it certainly doesn't need it in the starting lineup.
     
  7. langal

    langal Contributing Member

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    They should plan on going with one starter and sticking with him unless one starts sucking. I think players like to have defined roles to some extent. Now the actual allocation of minutes should have a higher degree of variability.
     
  8. rocketblood713

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    do u have a video for this game coming up ?
     
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  9. PhiSlamma

    PhiSlamma Member

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    rocketblood713 -- Check your User CP

    Sen89 -- I don't think it matters who starts if both point guards play like this
     
  10. HOUSTONJS

    HOUSTONJS Member

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    What about this line-up

    Asik manning the 5, Greg Smith at the 4, Dwight at the 3, T Jones at the 4 and we need a play-maker so what about trying MC* at the 1

    *if healthy
     
  11. verysimplejason

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    Are you serious? Sorry but this lineup would be too slow and too short-ranged. All the other team needs to do is to pack the paint, let those long-range balls fly, rebound and run. Even with that height, the opponent will always have the upper hand since their stay isn't restricted in the paint. In the defensive end, the opponents' shooters will have a fun time. Imagine just how slow this lineup chasing the guards and SFs. Howard might be fast enough for centers and PFs but not for premium SFs. TJones would be terrible against SGs.
     
  12. RocketPowerNick

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    Beverly's a tremendous role player, but it'd be a tragic mistake to start him. He just cannot push the ball and tempo the way Lin does.
     
  13. alethios

    alethios Member

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    This just makes it harder for me to wait until the regular season starts. Thanks for the tease (lol, j/k - nice analysis, we haz smart people on clutchfans yo).
     
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  14. Pumpedupkicks

    Pumpedupkicks Member

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    Can we not turn this into another Lin vs Bev thread? Their opposing (yet complementary) skills are a huge advantage to the team. I know people like to see set starting roles, but I think the Rockets have a unique opportunity to go unconventional by rotating Lin/Bev as needed/according to fit. So far, we've seen good results with either Lin or Bev starting and together as a backcourt.
     
  15. Maknusia

    Maknusia Member

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    Thanks for sharing Paul. No doubt both players are effective for team's various plays.

    Just wondering how is Harden's numbers compared to above? Thanks
     
  16. RocketPowerNick

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    What part of "tremendous role player" don't you understand?

    The bottom line is we're not having a STARTING lineup consisting of Harden, Howard, Parsons, Lin, and Beverly. In terms of what is best for the Rockets team, we need a PG that is a great passer/playmaker in order to set up Harden and Howard.
     
  17. NotChandlerParsons

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    Harden is a great playmaker. He can set himself up and Dwight too. It's not an insult to Lin to say that the second unit would benefit more from his playmaking ability.
     
  18. PhiSlamma

    PhiSlamma Member

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    Harden (through game 4)

    102 minutes
    084 Total Efficiency units
    EPM = 0.824

    Off the charts. Coming into the game, Harden was at 0.726. But he had a 23 efficiency in just 18 minutes and that shot him way up. Monster number.
     
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  19. Pumpedupkicks

    Pumpedupkicks Member

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    Then I guess I'll leave it up to you to figure out why, so far, we have been just as successful with Patrick Beverley in the starting lineup as Jeremy Lin. Cause you know, Bev's defense, the probing and creating extra possessions with his defense, disruption of the opposing offense, all of that is just as important to the starting lineup. In fact, you can even argue that the presence of one excellent playmaker (Harden) and the absence of a playermaker in the 2nd unit gives support to Bev starting and Lin off the bench. And yes, do not doubt that McHale will throw out a starting lineup of Lin/Bev/Harden as he sees fit (i.e. Game 2 of the OKC series).
     
  20. kfmfe04

    kfmfe04 Member

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    Harden is not good enough, Lin/Bev are not good enough playmakers yet.

    According to McHale,

    Feeding Howard is a work-in-progress...
     

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