gonna have to go ahead and disagree with ya there on the radio thing, ima..... i hear a shi!tty rush song almost everytime i turn on a classic rock station.
Deck, I think you're taking this waaaay too personally. Plus, I think it's possible to make the argument that the 13th Floor Elevators weren't really ahead of their time. I read a great article on Jimi Hendrix recently that argued quite persuasively that he wasn't ahead of his time. Instead, they compared him to an artist like Mozart, who wrote very much in the idioms and styles common of his time period. However, when you compare Mozart (and Hendrix) to his contemporaries, you can really appreciate the unique approach to those formats and styles. It doesn't take away from their genius to say they were of their time - in fact, I would imagine it's just as hard to make such definitive music when their are so many others working in the same style. Frankly, I haven't listened to enough 13th Floor Elevators music to make a real judgment here, but what I've heard definitely falls comfortably into the mid to late 60s psychedelic movement. They certainly had their unique take on this style and they were a great band. But were they ahead of their time - I'm not so sure zantabak is wrong.
You better hope Surfguy doesn't see this post! Them's fightin' words! I was talking about songs they've recorded in the last 20 years.
Jimi not ahead of his time? BLASPHEMY!!! Jimi was NOT confined to the idioms and styles of his time. That's what made him different. Please tell me where I might find this article and who wrote it.
Some guitar magazine from about 2-3 years ago that collected articles and interviews on Hendrix. I believe the specific article in question was new at the time however. When I get home, I'll pull it out and give you the exact title and date. The point is that it's not an insult to say that a great artist isn't ahead of their time. Lost of great artists are very much of their time - in fact, they define it. I would argue that Jimi very much falls into that latter category. It is neither blasphemy nor an insult to Jimi to say so, and doesn't detract from his greatness. While his guitar playing had the same audible influences as many of his 60s contemporaries, it was also leagues BETTER than anyone else playing at the time. In fact, given what had come before him, Jimi was the probably next logical step in guitar playing - someone who could combine the virtuosity of the original American blues and R&B guitarists with the volume and sustain of the English blues bands and the pop experimentalism of the Beatles. And what's genius about him is that while lots of people were trying to do this at the time, Jimi's really the only one who got it right. His music simultaneously grooves like the blues and R&B greats, rocks like the Who and trips you out like the Beatles. Compare the first half of Jimi's first solo on the Monterrey version of "Killing Floor" and then hear Clapton try to do something similar in his solo on "Sunshine of Your Love." Both of them have the same blues influence, both are playing through loud Marshalls on the verge of feedback, but Jimi's sounds so much more alive and organic than Clapton's. Clapton sounds like he's trying while Hendrix sounds likes he's being. And it's made all the more amazing by the fact that we're Hendrix live while Clapton probably has the benefit of multiple takes (which I believe he did on that song, given the trouble they had with the drums). Yet there's simply no question as to who's better. So was Jimi ahead of his time - probably not. Still a genius - absolutely. The reality is that most artists who are ahead of their time are rarely very acclaimed or popular. The usual response to music ahead of its time is "what the hell is this crap"? Fast forward 10-15 years and suddenly everyone gets it.
Excellent post subtomic. Eric "tried" to be a blues player. Jimi was one. Most guitar players, when they play live get locked into comfortable scales. Jimi experimented even when he played live. He was always exploring, but in the end all everyone wanted to hear was Purple Haze and Foxy Lady. He was in a no win situation. Jimi is way more popular now than when he was alive. Tons of people had no idea where he was coming from when he was alive. Funny, what a difference death makes.
I am going to say Sun Ra he pushed chord progressions and freedom in music in the same way ornette coleman did only he did it first he also was a big influence on coltrane to play free avant garde music he used electronic instruments in jazz music a full 10 years before miles did his outer space imagery and idea of a spaceship that ran on music was pretty much copied by George Clinton (the mothership) his african and egyptian ideolgy was copied by Afrika Bambaata His colorful costumes was also copied by Clinton and Afrika Bambaata He used pyschedelic lights years before Pink Floyd He pioneered the use of feedback and noise pretty much before anyone else He ran one of the first independent record labels He has one of the largest catalogs in american music
Hey, I had a headache. Here's some links. Check it out... While the first musicians to be influenced by psychedelic drugs were in the jazz and folk scenes, the first use of the term "psychedelic" in popular music was by the "acid-folk" group The Holy Modal Rounders in 1964. The first use of the word "psychedelic" in a rock music context is usually credited to the 13th Floor Elevators, and the earliest known appearance of this usage of the word in print is in the title of their 1966 album The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators. The psychedelic sound itself had been around at least a year earlier in the live music of the Grateful Dead and Pink Floyd, and Donovan's hit Sunshine Superman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock The reference above to the Grateful Dead and Pink Floyd neglects to mention that the Elevators were doing their thing already. The term "psychedelic" was coined by LSD researcher Humphrey Osmond in a letter to author Aldous Huxley in the mid-1950s. They were searching for a word to describe the effects of mind-altering chemicals such as LSD and mescaline. Other suggestions included "phanerothyme" and "entheogens". It is important to bear these origins in mind when considering the concept of psychedelic music. Psychedelic culture became known among the general populace in 1966-67 thanks to efforts of advocates like Timothy Leary and the Beatles. The first media use of the word "psychedelic" in connection with rock music occurred in February 1966 in an Austin newspaper article on the 13th Floor Elevators, who also had it on their business cards. http://www.lysergia.com/LamaReviews/lamaPsych.htm November (late), 1965 13th FLOOR ELEVATORS members drop LSD & form the band with the explicit intent of making LSD-inspired music. December, 1965 Psychedelic tunes "Roller coaster", "Fire engine" written by the 13th FLOOR ELEVATORS. http://www.lysergia.com/LamaWorkshop/lamaEarlyPsychedelia.htm The 13th Floor Elevators were perhaps the inventors of psychedelic rock. Certainly they were among the very first to play it. They were also one of the first bands to suffer the prejudice of the moralists and the law. They were, alas, also among the first to pay the consequences of drug abuse. The band formed in Austin, Texas, around jug musician Tommy Hall and guitarist Roky Erickson, who had already released an earlier version of his You' re Gonna Miss Me in 1965, with the Spades. Their first album, The Psychedelic Sound Of The 13th Floor Elevators (International Artists, 1966), released in the spring of 1966, is one of the most fascinating of the acid age, the archetype of psychedelia. The album presents a collection of acid ballads that feed on sound effects (Reverberation), on ethereal folk-rock (Splash), on rhythmic boogie (You're Gonna Miss Me), and on down-and-dirty improvisation (above all Roller Coaster, but also Fire Engine). Theirs is a rhythm and blues a la Rolling Stones, viewed through the deforming lens of LSD. The group's anthem, You're Gonna Miss Me, which made history in the genre, is a ferocious and dissolute soul song with hints of Tex-Mex and depraved vocalizations, full of instinctive fury, and propelled by the demented rhythm of Hall's deafening electric jug. Despite the instability of the lineup, the group recorded Easter Everywhere (Radar, 1967), which includes Postures, She Lives In A Time Of Her Own and Skip Inside This House. - Piero Scaruffi http://www.scaruffi.com/vol2/13thfloo.html Mark Deming, All Music Guide Did the 13th Floor Elevators invent psychedelic rock? Aficionados will be debating that point for decades, but if Roky Erickson and his fellow travelers into inner space weren't there first, they were certainly close to the front of the line, and there are few albums from the early stages of the psych movement that sound as distinctively trippy -- and remain as pleasing -- as the group's groundbreaking debut, The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators. In 1966, psychedelia hadn't been around long enough for its clichés to be set in stone, and Psychedelic Sounds thankfully avoids most of them; while the sensuous twists of the melodies and the charming psychobabble of the lyrics make it sound like these folks were indulging in something stronger than Pearl Beer, at this point the Elevators sounded like a smarter-than-average folk-rock band with a truly uncommon level of intensity. Roky Erickson's vocals are strong and compelling throughout, whether he's wailing like some lysergic James Brown or murmuring quietly, and Stacy Sutherland's guitar leads -- long on melodic invention without a lot of pointless heroics -- are a real treat to hear. And nobody played electric jug quite like Tommy Hall -- actually, nobody played it at all besides him, but his oddball noises gave the band a truly unique sonic texture. If you want to argue that psychedelia was as much a frame of mind as a musical style, it's instructive to compare the recording of "You're Gonna Miss Me" by Erickson's earlier band, the Spades, to the version on this album -- the difference is more attitudinal than anything else, but it's enough to make all the difference in the world. (The division is even clearer between the Spades' "We Sell Soul" and the rewrite on Psychedelic Sounds, "Don't Fall Down"). The 13th Floor Elevators were trailblazers in the psychedelic rock scene, and in time they'd pay a heavy price for exploring the outer edges of musical and psychological possibility, but along the way they left behind a few fine albums, and The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators remains a potent delight. http://www.mp3.com/albums/20012731/reviews.html (the above was a review of a 3 disc set released in the UK) Texas seems to have spawned the first psychedelic band, Austin's Thirteenth Floor Elevators, as well as Roy Orbison and Joe Ely, Butch Hancock, Jimmie Dale Gilmore and the popular Dixie Chicks. One of the Chicks, Natalie Maines, is the daughter of Lloyd Maines, a record producer and pedal steel player who has often played and recorded with Ely. http://www.texasalmanac.com/history/highlights/music/ 13th Floor Elevators debut was also among the first rock LPs where both sound and lyrics were overt paeans to the psychedelic experience. "Before the Elevators there were no bands that I know of that were doing material that was pro-drug. Leary and Alpert set to music," observes Powell St. John, the non-elevator who wrote three of the album’s songs (as well as material for Big Brother and the Holding Company and his own band Mother Earth). "The idea was to pack as much meaning into the words as possible. Puns, double entendres, obscure references, bizarre images . . . all were used. I wanted to produce lyrics to which one had to listen, and I wanted these lyrics to be capable of multiple interpretations. Ambiguity and innuendo was the name of the game." http://www.powellstjohn.com/articles.html (Powell St. John is a legendary musician from the era, and became an integral part of another one of my favorite groups from around '67... Mother Earth, with Tracy Nelson. I saw them several times at the Vulcan Gas Company in Austin) Love Street Light Circus Feel Good Machine opened on June 3rd 1967. The bands included the Red Crayola, the Starvation Army Band and Fever Tree. The audiences sat at tables or in the Zonk-Out, a series of cushions with back rests. Popular Texas bands that performed there included The Thirteenth Floor Elevators, Fever Tree, Johnny Winter's group, The Children, Bubble Puppy and Shiva's Headband. David Adickes was the original owner/manager/light show projectionist. Sgt. Cliff Carlin came on board to manage it by late '67. Adickes sold the club outright to Carlin later. By '69 (perhaps earlier) International Artists had a stake in it as well. Love Street's last show was on June 6, 1970. http://www.scarletdukes.com/st/tmhou_venues2.html (I was a fixture at Love Street... usually, the lights were turned down. wouldn't be surprised if I laying down in there, somewhere, lol! I worked across the street for a dive my cousin and his band rented that summer, doing the light show... I had a gas! ) Love Street Light Circus and Feelgood Machine featured live bands in front of a psychedelic light show. It was at the top of a 3-story building at Allen's Landing, a park on the north end of downtown. This was the closest thing we had in Houston to a Haight-Ashbury scene: music, head shops and hippies everywhere. It was a terrific atmosphere for young guitarists wanting to be Yardbirds. http://www.jam280.com/history.html (from a cool site by a group from back then, Josephus, who were pretty good) In 1965, Austin’s folk music scene began to yield to the psychedelic music era. New bands—particularly the 13th Floor Elevators and the Conqueroo—began to draw attention. But the bands had no place to perform on a regular basis. The New Orleans Club—a sleepy watering hole that catered to middle aged white folks with a taste for Dixieland Jazz—took a chance and began to showcase the 13th Floor Elevators to huge crowds. Legal hassles, however, led the New Orleans Club to reverse course and abandon rock and roll. At that point, the Jade Room stepped in. But this club also proved to be a poor substitute. By late 1966, it would agree to hire psychedelic bands only during mid-week and reverted to a “big band” format for the weekends. The club also attracted a large contingent of the university’s Greek community who could not understand or appreciate the alternative music. The fraternity brothers preferred endless renditions of “Louie, Louie” and “Gloria” and quarreled with the hippies. Arguably, Austin’s first real effort to establish a psychedelic club was The Fred. It included a light show and psychedelic bands. But this establishment was very short-lived. Like other venues of the era, it was raided by the Texas Liquor Control Board (LCB) and lost its liquor license after a minor was found to be drinking beer. The Fred was then replaced by Club Saracen—a venue that combined elements of the psychedelic scene and the fraternity scene. As might be expected, the venture failed. Another interesting experiment entailed moving the psychedelic music scene to the IL Club or The Afro in Austin’s African-American community. But the efforts suffered a similar fate and most clubs located in the African-American community--including the famous Charlies Playhouse--refused to book the hippie bands. The continued need for a psychedelic club that would showcase psychedelic music and other “non-conventional” music forms (including the blues) on a regular and predictable basis led to the creation of a loose group of hippies who originally called themselves “The Electric Grandmother.” Rather than print posters in the traditional "boxing style" format (click here to view rock posters that resembled old posters used to promote fights), the Electric Grandmother used psychedelic art to promote their shows. After organizing three concerts by the 13th Floor Elevators (including one at the Houston Music Theatre in Houston, Texas), the group changed its name to “The Vulcan Gas Company” and promoted three more shows. These included an April 22, 1967 Conqueroo concert at the Doris Miller Auditorium (an event that generated what is technically the first Vulcan Gas Company poster), a May 6, 1967 show at the Doris Miller Auditorium and a September 24, 1967 “Love-In” at Austin’s Zilker Park. The Vulcan Gas Company then rented a building located at 316 Congress Avenue (at the time a run-down part of downtown Austin) and opened a club under its name. http://www.faculty.missouristate.edu/d/dvh804f/vulcan.htm (from a brief history of the Vulcan Gas Company... very similar to Love Street... GREAT place to experience music, as was Love Street... you could do anything there, pretty much, and we did... check out the site) (also, check out BillNarum.com... dig around and you'll see some old posters and handbills, and how cheap great concerts were back then) Check out this site, and read the interviews. This is an excerpt from an interview with Michael Knust, the guitarist of Fever Tree: ...the Jefferson Airplane had just started doin' their thing, and we would go to a place called La Maison which was an old church right on the edge of downtown Houston around McAllen and bagby, and that's where we first saw another group called Euphoria and another called the 13th Floor Elevators. And I just thought they were the ones. This was it, you know. This was probably early '66, mid '66 something like that. Tommy Hall the jug player, John Ike the drummer, Roky was the singer... he also played guitar... Stacy Sutherland the guitar player. I loved it. I just thought 'Wow, this is too cool." it was different. (this is just a great story from the guy, and it gives you an idea of how different concerts were back then) FLASHBACK TO '67... One thing I'd like to mention, when I graduated from high school, I had never been to California. Fresh Cream had just come out, I guess... May of '67. I went with our light man to Long Beach, California, his name was Harry McLaughlin, and we stayed with his Aunt, and we saw in the paper that Cream was playing at the Whiskey-a-Go-Go for three nights. We managed to get tickets for all three shows, and I want you to know... the Whisky-a-Go-Go was a very small place, holds like 350 people. I'd never smoked weed in my life, and we scored a matchbox for like (laughs) twenty bucks or something. I don't even know if I felt it, you know? It doesn't matter. We went to see them play and the place was packed, and they... were... absolutely... awesome. Absolutely awesome. As a matter of fact, I stood at Clapton's feet. They were using Marshall amplifiers, which I'd never heard of before. Just kicking ****ing ass. Just playing like nobody had ever seen before... and the hand tremolo, the vibrato, I mean I was working with it a little but most people used a Bigsby or whatever, you know? And he was just whippin' it, man. So they finish their first set and everyone's on their feet, like I said they played VERY well, they played all the stuff off the Fresh Cream album. They come back for the second set and start doing material I hadn't heard before - "Strange Brew", "NSU", songs off their Disraeli Gears album which hadn't come out yet. About halfway through the set, Eric Clapton goes "Jack Bruce on the bass guitar" and Baker and Clapton walked behind stage. And Jack Bruce plays the bass and sings at the same time just rippin' it. Just awesome. Clapton had left his guitar leaned against his Marshall feeding back in the same key he was playing the bass. After 20 minutes Clapton walks out, picks up HIS guitar, and Jack Bruce sets his bass against HIS amp and does the same feedback thing, goes "Eric Clapton." And Clapton gets out there and plays for about 20 minutes just kickin' it, man. Just playin', playin', playin' and I'm watching this vibrato... and this TONE, you know was just AWESOME. Just finesse; total finesse. I'm standing at his feet watching the whole time, I'm like... 'They're from another planet'. (laughs) All three of 'em come out and start that song "Toad", (hums the melody) then they put the guitars down and (Ginger) Baker plays for... I don't know how long. And he was about this big around, and just... screamin' I mean the place was going nuts, man. Had you ever seen anything like that before? Did you have any idea... I couldn't even read the name on their amplifiers (laughs). I was wantin' to know how he was getting that TONE. What pedals he was using, what what you know? Anyway Baker did his deal and they come back out and they finish the song and they go off stage... the show's over. Fortunately, like I say, I had tickets for all three nights. The THIRD night, when Baker was doin' his drum solo, he was sweating like a pig... I mean I sweat a lot when I play, you know, you're just putting every ounce of energy into the music. He was almost to where they'd come out and finish together, and he just fell off his stool. The roadies came out there and picked him up and put him back on the stool, and they finished their little deal and that was the end of the show. And everybody was going totally nuts, I mean it was just absolutely fantastic. That was a really big influence in my playing, you know 'I really wanna get this tremolo thing down' and I actually got to talk to their roadie. I said "How's he gettin' that SOUND?" From what I saw it looked like he was going straight into the amp. Which he was! The roadie says "He's not using any effects, that's the Marshall amps." "Ohhh..." 'cause I was going 'Mitchell, Mammmm whatever' tryin' to read these amps. It was really awesome, it was a real influence. And I came back to Houston, and this was before we played that gig at the Kaleidoscope I told you about, and I said "Hey! There's some badass players out there, you know, we gotta really be together when it's our turn." And about a month after that, Hendrix came to the Houston Music Coliseum, which is no longer there. Dale Mullins, my guitar teacher, he could play anything... and so I took the first Hendrix album over to him and (asked him about) the different chord inversions. I got two tickets to see him at the Coliseum and I took Dale, I said "We've gotta go see this guy." Before Hendrix starts, the curtain is closed and he's back there playing every cream song, just warming up, just rippin' it you know? And then when they finally opened the curtain, he starts off with "Foxey Lady" and it's just like God, you know, after seeing Clapton and then seeing Hendrix, I'm going 'These guys are from another planet.' thepsychedelicguitar.com And this is the Elevator's site... http://elevators.blinkenlights.org/ I could post more, but this probably won't all fit this post, and I've got to give myself a rest, lol!
Check this old school footage (1992 Black Thought + Quest Love freestylin) , you might like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ybqP7G6Po&mode=related&search= Sounds better live, unbelievable flow... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tm8CEa67XA&mode=related&search= Cool video...No longer ahead of their time I guess http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDb9sO86b_A OK, enough youtube videos...last one that applies to this thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsNO4PEhNw
"My music will go on forever. Maybe it's a fool say that, but when me know facts me can say facts. My music will go on forever." -Bob Marley "People want to listen to a message, word from Jah. This could be passed through me or anybody. I am not a leader. Messenger. The words of the songs, not the person, is what attracts people." -Bob Marley Without doubt, Bob Marley can now be recognized as the most important figure in 20th century music. It's not just my opinion, but also, judging by all the mainsteam accolades hurled Bob's way lately, the feeling of a great many others too. Prediction is the murky province of fools. But in the two decades since Bob Marley has gone, it is clear that he is without question one of the most transcendant figures of the past hundred years. The ripples of his unparalleled achievements radiate outward through the river of his music into an ocean of politics, ethics, fashion, philosophy and religion. His story is a timeless myth made manifest in this iwah, right before our disbelieving eyes. Unlike mere pop stars, Bob was a moral and religious figure as well as a major record seller internationally. To whom does one compare him? In a recent Sunday New York Times Arts and Leisure lead story, Stanley Crouch makes a compelling case for Louis Armstrong as the century's "unequaled performer," excelling not just in his instrumental inventiveness but in his vocal style as well, transforming the way music was made and listened to, and influencing performers of all stripes right down to this very day. But you don't see thousands of Maori and Tongans and Fijians gathering annually to pay honor to Louis Armstrong; you don't witness phalanxes of youth wandering the world sporting Louis Armstrong t-shirts. In fact, big as the Beatles were, you hardly see any Beatle shirts around anymore, except for those few featuring John Lennon's sorrow-inducing visage. Can you imagine an image of Elvis sewn onto the sleeve of an armed guerilla? When was the last time you saw a Michael Jackson flag or a Bob Dylan sarong or Madonna rolling papers? All of these exist in Marleyite forms, his iconography well nigh a new universal language, the symbol, as Jack Healey of Amnesty International continues to tell people, of freedom throughout the world. ... In his true heart of hearts, Bob Marley heard the harmony of the heavens, and shared that celestial sound with the god-seeker in each of us. Thus it is not surprising that the N.Y. Times, seeking one video to epitomize the past century, preserved in a time capsule to be opened a thousand years hence, chose "Bob Marley Live at the Rainbow, London, 1977." Or that the same "newspaper of record" called Marley "the most influential artist of the second half of the 20th century." We are all ennobled by our proximity to Marley and his art, his eternal songs of freedom. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/marley_b.html
how about Mogwai. they took Slint's dynamics and atmosphere and My bloody Valentine's wall-of-sound and spawned a whole new sound and a slew of imitators in their wake.
that would be true if bands like the ramones, suicide, and roxy music hadn't been playing with similiar ideas and sounds several years earlier.
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