Where do people keep getting this "Glen Rice disrupts chemistry", Rice has NEVER did that on the court. Rice has complained about shots, granted, so did Dream. BUT Rice STILL produced when on the floor, he didn't dog it, and he never strayed from the game plan. Knicks fans call him a cancer because he was injured last year. When Rice is on a team they win, whether it's Miami, Charlotte, LA, or NY those teams ALWAYS won. I consider somebody like Pippen a cancer, it was obvious he didn't play as hard as he could the 2nd half of the '99 season. Guys like Derrick Coleman are cancers, out of shape, bad attitudes, don't care. Rice might have complained about shots, but he has never let it affect him or his team on the court. That is something you have to at least give him credit for.
Hey now, this is the BBS here. It's okay for him to b****, because he's coming to the Rockets. Just like it's okay for Francis and Barkley to act like idiots. Only "troublemakers" like Hakeem Olajuwon and Shandon Anderson aren't allowed to "speak out".
Will and Crispee(p.s. when do I get to name you?) make legitimate arguments about the trade, but this stuff above I got to disagree. You cannot quantify roster move values in order to judge. What I mean is saying is 4 bad moves vs 9 good moves is not the best way to do it. Secondly, you also have to look at best alternatives in order to judge value. That's why I don't think trading for Cato and Walt was bad, cause Pip screwed the Rocks into a corner. So here's my list for negs and positives by current Rocks management: Neg: I believe these 3 are the most important mistakes because they have had MAJOR impact and long term impact for future moves and so on. barkley ( I think the Rocks jumped the gun and gave up too much on not being able to beat Seattle-they were injured, and Chuck was brought here for a Championship, not to beat Seattle, but a Championship) pippen (if chuck and pip weren't here, we could of had McDyess) Signing Cato for too much, too long Pros: I'm not including Griffin because it's too early man, way too early. Taylor is NOT a stud yet, and Shandon and Will's etc. are equal. drexler (no doubt of the impact here) franchise (the name says it all) mario (was underrated) horry (was underrated) sam (still underrated) cat (still underrated) Conclusion: I think Will's closer to the Truth. I think the cummulative impact of the positive moves were and are great. However, if you look at the negative moves, vision what the Rocks would be like if they did what they were projected to do: more championship and the greatest young center in the NBA. Instead they now have wasted opportunities in the likes of McDyess for his whole prime, and $42 million of cap space invested in bad weed. My take on Rice: It's too early to tell, but I think it'd be kinda cool to have a lineup of Griffin, Taylor, Rice, Mobley, and Francis on the court.
Have to give you props, for inserting a reference to The Simpsons and my favorite character ever, Comic Book Guy (who has a master's degree in folklore and mythology). Just have faith in Rudy T and CD and wait for Jahidi to come.
For me, this trade boils down to Rice for Anderson and Bullard in terms of cap space -- I'd do that deal in a New York minute We don't give up much to get a player like Rice -- remember, outside shooting will be very valuable this season. It is too early to judge this trade without seeing the moves that follow -- hopefully, a move involving Cato and/or Williams........ Has anyone else thought about Rice eventually ending up in Miami for a player like Mason?
Man, I've been out all day....River Oaks Theater, downtown, etc....and I come back to this thread. G**damn, some of you need some major-ass chilling out. Thanos, nao e tao mal, rapaz, viu? Let's NOT act like this is all over. I don't know if we have any wiggle room left with the salary cap, but there could be a way to land Jahidi White (it will take some maneuvering, because I honestly don't know what the cap situation is now). Rice is not the piece of crap that some of you are making him out to be. He had the bad luck of NOT being Scottie Pippen, and being someone Phil Bunghole Jackson (sorry for my puerile attitude) did not specifically ask for; he wanted jack-of-all-trades-also-former-Bull Pippen and got a half-assed defense sharpshooter. Then Rice goes to the Knicks and Van Gumby has no minutes for him. The Knicks need someone who can score---they've always been about defense---but, instead, Van Gumby shoulders Rice aside in favor of Spree (fan favorite) and A. Houston (who saved Van Gumby's job in the year that the Knicks went to the finals). Plantar fascitis? Maybe; but all season long? Pardon me, but BU-WA-HA-HA-HA-HA. Right. Rice went to LA feeling he would be wanted (Shaq lobbied for a shooter). Phil Jackson takes a giant dump on him. Then NY. Van Gumby does the same. Like it or not, Rudy wants some experience on this team and someone who can open up the floor. Let's wait and see what happens with the center spot. I really, really doubt we're done.
fugettabout Griff in the starting lineup, he WILL be brought on slowly like Rudy knows best, Rice will occupy the 3 more valiently than Walt and Bull could and more consistently, CHEMISTRY? why would anyone think this is a problem when it has never been an issue with him or has CD/Rudy brought in a "troublemaker"(-pip), like the other resident prophets I too know there are other moves up the sleeves of the front office LA has always done what it takes for the Rocks to progress and this no differrent.
Gotta agree with SA here re. running and scoring, but rebounding had little impact on our phenomenal scoring streaks last year. Maybe CD/RT think that a vet shooter like Rice could keep our offense from sputtering and letting the other team catch-up? Truth is, the key to Rocket victories with this team will be running and shooting more than anything else. Honestly though...I was also floored by the news also. I thought Rice was a cap albatross and little more. If CD/RT believe in him, I would bet that they will prove me wrong...please! BTW, if Glen complains about too few touches he can sit his a*s on the bench. If Hakeem doesn't get more touches by b****'n I doubt that Glen will.
I like this deal now, but it still bothers me that the Rockets have basically done exactly what Stern intended when he introduced the zone...and that is build a team based around offense. Damn you, Stern! You still suck!
Caddman: I'm not in Houston, but I think what I've read here is that we were pursuing McDyess until we got fascinated with Da Pip. Was that Barkley's influence? Not only did the acquisition of Barkey hurt the Rockets, but listening to his preferences was a round mound of "you know what." We've made three big personnel blunders and two of them involve Barkley: 1. NOT trading Hakeem two years ago. 2. TRADING Horry and Cassell for Barkley 3. SIGNING Pippen over McDyess Charles IS/WAS entertaining, but our dalliance with him hurt this team.
Why would anyone run a zone against the Rockets? A zone is mostly implemented to take away the inside force, not penetration. In fact you get better penetration through a zone than you do a man defense. The sonics, jazz, and suns never ran a zone to stop maxwell and Smith from driving, it was for Hakeem. Zone is what the Rockets will do against other teams in the west to keep from getting killed inside. I don't think its a team in the west thats worried about the Rockets inside game. Most teams will basically play a triangle an 2 on the Rockets. That means arm length defense on Cat, Rice,Francis and play behind on the blocks against the 4 and 5. So everyone who thinks teams are going to play zone to stop penetration, they are sadly mistaken.
Originally posted by crispee "religious faith" towards Rudy! Anyhow, I give you Signing Pippen (although this was a freebie really, offset by Barkley's $1m) Sign Cato for too long Trading for Barkley...although without Barkley, cc.net may never have taken off!!! Do not underestimate the motivation for Clutch's first post!! ....plus all your petty Maloney and etc garbage. Now what does Rudy have: Trading for Drexler: indisputably lands us a ring...this offsets Barkley <i> agreed on the first part, not on the second part of this statement </i> Trading for Francis: a legitimate franchise player...without which you still don't have the Rocket's on TV!!! <i> Ok now did Rudy trade for Francis or did he really fall into our laps. Unless your saying any coach in any league in any world wouldnt of made that move. Something tells me, this was more a C. Dawson move more so that it was a Rudy move, unless coaches oftenly work out trades with other teams. </i> Trading for Griffin: unbelievable complement star for the future <i> Give credit for picking up the 3 draft picks in order to be in position to get Griffin, not in the no brainer of trading for him. Again, I couldnt imagine to many coaches not making this deal considering what was left when the Rockets drafted Jefferson. Its a tad quick to label a 19 year old rookie, with question marks, a star isnt it? </i> Signing Mobley to $3.9m: not only does Rudy find him and groom him, but he gets him to sign way under value...this completely offset any wasted spending on Maloney <i> Again was this Rudy's decision for Mobley to take undermarket value? Big Kudos go to Mobley for sticking at undermarket value, heck in that case any GM willing to pay Jordan 5 million a season (if he took it) would be called a genius then. And no, it doesnt make up paying 7 years at about an average of what 3-4 million a season for a player that is never going to play for you? </i> Signing Mo' to $2.2m exception: 'nuff said <i> Agreed, but Mo more than got his back this year. What team doesnt do this now a days? </i> Signing Shandon to $2m exception: another steal and his increased value offsets at least one of your little "etc"s...same with Mo' <i> Im feeling a little confused, according to your own posts, Shandon was worth little more than that same 2.2 million he earned. So its a great move to sign a player to his value? Or to sign a player to his value, not getting it, and having to deal him at a higher rate for an overaged, overrated small foward which we have the most talent at that position to begin with </i> Finding Mario Elie: integral role player to a ring <i> Agreed, but lets not forget about such winning moves like passing over a certain Houston native 3 times, drafting Bryce Drew at number 15, Mirsad Turkan at 18, and stiffs like Hamilton, Washington, and Collier. </i> Finding Moochie: without which you wouldn't be enjoying that 3OT thrilla. <i> Yes, but what team in the NBA doesnt have some CBA, or feel good story person on their team, that averages a couple of points and assists a game in some solid relief performances. Really just about every team can make this point </i> Landing a pick for Pryzbilla and a pick for Turkscan without which we do NOT get Griffin <i> Yep. You found it. It was a stroke of genius, but no one could of imagined Griffin falling so far, and Griffin could still turn out to be a bust. There are many more number 7 busts than there are "Stars" </i> hmmmmm.....looks like Will is the one s.t.r..a..i...n....i......n........g to find logic against this. Oh....and we did all this without TANKING!!!! thank you. now I run away by covering my ass in the protective cover of smilies
Uh, right. Why were all those illegal D's called on teams for cheating on the Francis/Mobley/Moochie isos? If they play the same man to man as they did last year, it's going to create the open shots that Walt and Shandon had for 3. Except instead of streaky Walt, and Shandn taking them, it'll be Glen Rice, or a layup. Just slightly better odds. That is also why the Rockets liked/kept Mo Taylor, as well as Collier. He's a big man and can shoot the outside jumper. So, Mo can roam to the outside, and keeping the defender honest, and away from the basket. While teams won't care if Cato walks to the three point line, you can be sure they will keep someone near Collier out there, or Collier will score some points.
Shaq and all those other big men still don't have to guard anyone. Rememnber those same illegal d's that were called, won't be this year. shaq and those other big guys can stand at the shoeblock or freethrow line, this is surely to disrupt offenses. I'd rather have a guy like collier shooting from 24ft than a guy playing big and drawing fouls.
Can't we all just get along?? Anyhoo, it makes no sense for any of us to try to predict how Rice will play.(including me) Rice will be in an entirely different system, very different from those he was in, in Los Angeles and New York. At first, I was opposed to bringing in Rice, but I do see a lot of logic in it now. With the new rules, Rice will be VERY valuable. I cannot express that enough. His stats aren't all that bad either, though there has been a large decrease over the years. I have a lot of opinions about this trade...but everyone has basically expressed them. I am now officially on the bandwagon. I have faith in ROckets' management. Everything will turn out.Everything will be fine. I'm also excited to hear from Doc Rocket, making hints about our soon-to-be center. Any ideas? I sure hope it's not White, but anyone other than Cato is fine with me. Cod
I've got to tip my hat to Doc Rocket here.. sure Shanon plays the only defence on the team, but next year will see the game shift into an offence first game, so having a zip scorer would hurt us on court. Images of Wink and Cat kicking out to Rice flash in my mind now and then.. when was the last time we actually saw such plays? back in the ole clutch city days. hell yea, deperation kickouts will certainly save our ass in close games now, and I would certainly trust Rice more than anyone on the team right now, even over Wink. Let's not forget that we have Morris Griffin and now, Kyle Hall to throw into the hardcourt. sure, they're rookies, but I figure them playing key roles in time to come. Let's not leave out Langhi and Collier.. (hello.. you around to play this year?).. hopefully they will build on the flashes of brilliance we've seen sometime somewhere. I think this trade has made us a more dangerous team overall. We shouldn't be worried about defence in the middle and a soft frontcourt.. after all.. we have Cato right? urm.. .... ...
Huh? The 95-96 Rockets weren't good at all... Therefore, they HAD to make a trade of big-time magnitude... The 95-96 Rockets only won 48 games... Got their asses handed to them by Sea, who had won 13-15 games IN A ROW against them... So here's the scenario... Seattle-Defending WC champs who absolutely OWNED the Rockets... Phoenix-We simply had their number... And we could make them weaker by acquiring Barkley... LA-Just acquired Shaq... SA-Won 59 games and were decidedly better than the Rockets Utah-Won 55 games and were slightly better than the Rockets Just by looking that, say the Rockets do stay pat... The Rockets would be lucky to win 50 games the next year... Also, bear in mind that we felt like Drexler and Olajuwon were heading into retirement soon, so the desperation for a title run was big... So the idea of keeping Bryant, Brown, Cassell, and Horry is crazy... Would we have been able to keep Cassell, with his high contract demands? Also, who else could the Rockets have traded for instead of Barkley? Barkley clearly wanted out of Phoenix, at that point, and the Rockets got a bargain... Cassell is a me-first PG who won't win until he sees the light... Horry is a good role player, but nothing more than a backup PF, SF back then... Bryant at best is a decent backup PF... Chucky Brown is lucky to be employed... Fact is, the trade gave the Rockets as good of a shot at the title as any move could have at the time... I love the Rockets win-now attitude because there are plenty of teams in the NBA who don't even have a shot at pulling off the trades and signings the Rockets have made since Alexander took over...
