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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Its not about what I think or what. Its living in reality.

    Russia is not losing this war. Why would they accept UN troops on the border? What does Russia get? This is exactly what Russia doesn't want. If this was even a remote possibility, do you not think NATO troops would be in 'peacekeeping' mode 4 years ago?
    I am very confused why anyone would think this is a reasonable outcome. Unless you think Russia is losing and Zelenskyy holds the cards. lol
     
  2. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Ukraine and European countries don't trust Putin. Ukraine seeks a security guarantee in a peace deal to maintain peace, and Europe wants the same. Without it, both sides would have to trust that Putin won't invade again. Without that trust, the war won't stop unless Putin decides to end it - something less likely than a peace deal with peacekeeping troops or Ukraine giving up, which is even less likely than both.
     
  3. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    You're not viewing this from a macro perspective. You look at it from a 'Us vs Them'.

    The United States just put on its greatest show of power. It penetrated into Kursk. This was not Ukraine. This was the United States. W/out US intelligence, Ukraine would have never gotten 2 feet into the border. Thus when Trump ended aid (in the form of intelligence) to the Kursk region, it fell apart nearly overnight.
    Understand without US support, Europe is ****ed. Our advanced weapons of all types will shut down immediately. Russia and China will roll right over them. They already are in some EU countries. If we can nearshore, we no longer need to support Europe. Force them to start dealing with their own problems.
    Norway has almost a 2 trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund. Maybe they need to spend a few hundred billies to fortify europe instead of getting it on cheap from the USA.

    Its time we renegotiate with Canada and Europe. Its ok to breakup the white brotherhood.
     
  4. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    What do Norway, Finland, Estonia and Latvia have in common? They all share a border with Russia. And they are also members of NATO. Thus, they all have NATO troops on the Russian border.

    Must be news to Putin.
     
  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    I don't agree with your macro assumptions that Ukraine can't defend itself without the U.S.

    The U.S. is not one of the countries offering peacekeeping troops. It's European nations. They are standing on their own here to defend peace and themselves. Ukraine has proven it can defend itself effectively with support from various nations, not just the U.S. The narrative that only U.S. intelligence and weapons enable their defense underestimates the resilience and capabilities of the Ukrainian people and their armed forces.

    European countries are not sitting idly by. They’ve provided significant military and humanitarian aid, and some countries, like Poland, have been particularly active in supporting Ukraine. If the U.S. were to pull back entirely, it wouldn't just leave a vacuum in Ukraine. It would embolden adversaries like Russia and China, destabilizing not only Europe but also the global balance of power.

    I also don’t see the benefit in "breaking up" the alliances that have kept much of the world stable. Strong alliances are built on shared interests, and abandoning them could hurt everyone in the long run.
     
  6. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    President Trump said on Sunday he was “being a little bit sarcastic” when he pledged to end the war between Ukraine and Russia in 24 hours.

    In a Sunday broadcast of “Full Measure,” Trump was pressed on his campaign promise to end the war in less than a day.

    “Well, I was being a little bit sarcastic when I said that,” Trump responded. “What I really mean is I’d like to get it settled, and I think I’ll be successful.”

    During the 2024 presidential campaign, Trump frequently said he would “solve” the war in 24 hours if the American people elected him to a second term.

    “If it’s not solved, I will have it solved in 24 hours with Zelensky and with Putin,” Trump told Fox News host Sean Hannity nearly two years ago, referring to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    “And there’s a very easy negotiation to take place. But I don’t want to tell you what it is because then I can’t use that negotiation; it’ll never work. But it’s a very easy negotiation to take place. I will have it solved within one day, a peace between them. Now that’s a year and a half. That’s a long time. I can’t imagine something not happening,” Trump added at the time. “The key is the war has to stop now because Ukraine is being obliterated.”


    Trump has prioritized efforts to negotiate an end to the war since entering the White House nearly two months ago, but the war remains ongoing.

    In the Sunday interview, Trump was asked whether he has been talking to Putin, and whether he has done so “in the last days or hours” and whether he has done so “personally.”

    “Well, I don’t want to say it, but we are dealing with him, and I think, I think it’s going reasonably well,” Trump responded.
     
  7. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    LOL....now he was just being sarcastic, I guess he was sarcastic when he said he would lower prices on day one..............he is full of poppy ****. His resolution will be, "whatever putin wants, putin gets"..........................I think putin shows up at the negotiating table about the same time as trump hands over his health care plan or his taxes, which I am sure are no longer being audited, if they were in the first place
     
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  8. astros123

    astros123 Member

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  9. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    I think it's really creepy how Trump gets always gets so excited about talking to Putin.
     
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  10. davidio840

    davidio840 Member

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    Then you don’t even know what you’re talking about. Ukraine will never be able to defend itself without the U.S.

    Europe isn’t going to go all in and help like the U.S. has done for a plethora of countries in the past half+ century. They simply can’t without 1) becoming insignificant or 2) being called a fascist dictatorship. Learn some ****in history.
     
  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Retiring there is a little different than bringing family to Portugal or Spain and establishing roots. Simply stated, while there are enjoyable and wonderful things in both countries, the opportunities are not all that great from a financial perspective or even a growth perspective. Also - there is some degree of instability.

    I would compare it to moving to a small and stagnant town in the USA. There are many things to like - but opportunities for the young are very limited.

    I lived in the UK for awhile - and other parts of Europe. While I could spend the rest of my life in a place like Ireland or England - I find that a lot of the problems in these places are not discussed like the issues in the USA. The wages in these places for skilled professionals is terrible compared to the USA and the cost of living is higher. From a sheer opportunity standpoint I will take the USA by far over everywhere I have spent time. There are small nations I have been to that I really enjoy in Europe but they often are hard to break into without independent wealth.

    To be clear there are some serious issues in the USA - the social net is better than advertised but overly complex, there is more violence than some European areas I have lived and the USA right now is not cohesive… but I expect that to stabilize.
     
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  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Well we have Russia continuing their march into Ukraine and Trump has managed to alienate US allies.

    We have Israel not bombing Gaza during Ramadan as they continue to turn Gaza into prime real estate for wealthy Jews to buy and move to - and the President has already stated he supports the removal of Palestinians from Gaza.

    We have the US bombing Yemen and Somalia and Trump has only been in office a few months.

    We have the President discussing taking Greenland and sending military into Panama Canal and many Canadians believe America will invade them.

    Things are going well on the peace front early on- at least we have a trade war with China to look forward to.
     
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  13. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Cmon Nook. With social media were becoming more and more unstable by the day. We have no regulations in America overlooking social media and/or privacy concerns unlike those in place in Europe. Europeans are no where near as radicalized as Americans are.



    The entire world sees America for what they are and it's not going to get better anytime soon. Americans are becoming more and more brainwashed by the day
     
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Disagree - was recently in Germany and it was far more uncomfortable than anything I have seen in the US and racial/immigrant concerns are a big issue. Saw similar things in Poland.

    France and GB also has serious lack of cohesion concerns and a growing radical problem.

    Things can change very quickly in the USA. While I have serious concerns about the long term damage done, I am also very aware that Trump didn’t even receive 50% of the vote and won after the sitting President was exposed on national television and forced to resign.
     
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  15. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    The far right in UK/France got less than 20% of the overall vote.... in Germany the far right aFd only got 20% of the vote. I have no idea what you saw in Germany cuz i have relatives in Germany who wear hijab and have never had any issues... 35% of Americans consider themselves as MAGA which is more than double of any of the right wing parties in EU

    If you look at the stats regarding hate crimes it's much much worst in America and its not even close. You can read the fbi statistics yourself

    https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/hate-crime-statistics

    I'm in Denmark and have never had any issues with my race or religion which wasn't true in America. My local masjid in USA had a brick through through the window recently.
     
  16. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    They would have been able to defend themselves if weren’t talked into giving up their nukes by Russia and US.
     
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  17. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Oh boy! If early 1900's trench style war mongering wasn't enough, the highly corrupt Ukrainian government could be using nukes!!! Think of all the Russians we could kill! Tens of millions! Billions!

    You war mongers are terrifying. You guys don't just hate people who disagree with you. You literally want the whole world to burn. Even a mentally handicapped adolescent understands the dangers of using nuclear weapons
     
  18. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Not sure which history book you're reading, but I don't agree with any of this.

    Claiming that Ukraine will never be able to defend itself without the U.S. oversimplifies a much more complex situation. In the initial weeks following Russia's large-scale invasion from both land and sea, Ukraine was largely on its own, facing overwhelming odds before international support began to arrive. Despite these challenges, Ukraine demonstrated remarkable resilience and determination, initially relying on its own capabilities and then gradually securing critical backing from the U.S., European nations, and other international partners. Additionally, the notion that deeper European involvement would somehow lead to a nation being labeled a "fascist dictatorship" lacks historical and political evidence. European democracies have consistently provided defense and aid in ways that uphold their core values. This shows that Ukraine’s defense is a collaborative international effort rather than being solely dependent on any single country.
     
  19. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    War Mongers? You're the clown supporting the side that invaded Ukraine. Putin could end this war immediately if HIS troops laid down their weapons.
     
  20. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Fewer nukes mean a safer world, so Ukraine's denuclearization is still a positive step.

    But you're pretty much off-base here - his point is MAD (mutual assured destruction) as a defense strategy.

    MAD is gaining traction now that the U.S. no longer seems reliable and is pulling back from the region; Poland wants it, and Germany does too. Taiwan and South Korea might also pursue nuclear capabilities if the U.S. signals that they stand alone. This shift will likely result in a more dangerous world.
     

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