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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Not sure if you’re smart
     
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  2. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    If Russia were to take over Ukraine and murder people as massively as people *think* Palestinians will do Isrealis. . . . .
    It would not change anyone's opinion of this war. . . .Trump would still be Pro Russia
    and his supporters would still be Pro Allowing it

    Rocket River
     
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  3. basso

    basso Member
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  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Anybody think tough-guy Trump is going to follow through on his tough-guy talk against Russia for rejecting his proposal? My face is totally straight and this is a post totally free of sarcasm in any form. Really. I'm totally being honest.
     
    #18305 Ottomaton, Mar 13, 2025
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2025
  6. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    Any ceasefire only helps Ukraine to rearm and resupply.
    Bad deal for Russia and they know the US is broke AF, as is Europe
     
  7. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
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    Gonna have to look in the couch cushions
     
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  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Just a reminder of Putin wanting peace... and something about NATO

    wiki:
    Early Negotiations and Rejected Settlement (February 2022): Deputy Kremlin Chief of Staff Dmitry Kozak reportedly negotiated a settlement with Ukraine that would have ended hostilities in exchange for Ukraine's commitment not to join NATO. However, this agreement was blocked by President Putin, who sought broader territorial gains beyond the initial proposal.
     
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  9. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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  10. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
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    Wonder if Kraznov had a hand in this?
     
  11. dmoneybangbang

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  12. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Here's how tough he is right now after Putin rejected the deal....

    When asked if he was willing to meet with Putin, Trump said, “I’d love to meet with him and talk to him.”

    He probably gets more excited spending time with Putin than he does his wife these days. I doubt Melania is as good at faking admiration for him.
     
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  13. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
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    I suspect Melania is pretty good at faking things.
    Mostly "O's" with the Donald.
    If ya know what I mean.
     
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  14. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  16. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/03/12/trump-russia-ukraine-negotiations-fsb-document/[/URL]
    Document prepared for Kremlin outlines hard-line negotiating stance

    The document, written in February by a Moscow-based think tank close to Russia’s Federal Security Service, lays out Russia’s maximalist demands. Russia should work to weaken the U.S. negotiating position on Ukraine by stoking tensions between the Trump administration and other countries while pushing ahead with Moscow’s efforts to dismantle the Ukrainian state, according to a document prepared for the Kremlin. The document, written in February by an influential Moscow-based think tank close to Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB), lays out Russia’s maximalist demands for any end to the conflict in Ukraine. It dismisses President Donald Trump’s preliminary plans for a peace deal within 100 days as “impossible to realize” and says that “a peaceful resolution of the Ukraine crisis cannot happen before 2026.” The document also rejects any plan to dispatch peacekeepers to Ukraine, as some in Europe have proposed, and insists on recognition of Russia’s sovereignty over the Ukrainian territories it has seized. It also calls for a further carve-up through the creation of a buffer zone in Ukraine’s northeast on the border with Russian regions such as Bryansk and Belgorod, as well as a demilitarized zone in southern Ukraine near Crimea, which Russia illegally annexed in 2014. The latter would affect the Odessa region.[/B]

    In addition, the document discusses the need for “the complete dismantling” of the current Ukrainian government.

    The document, which was obtained by a European intelligence service and reviewed by The Washington Post, highlights the challenges still facing Trump in reaching any agreement with Russia for a peace deal, now that Kyiv has endorsed Washington’s proposal for a 30-day ceasefire, appearing to bridge a divide between the two countries.

    While Russia has yet to signal that it would sign up for any ceasefire, analysts warned that Moscow still has a multitude of ways it could drag out agreeing to even a temporary pause in hostilities. The road to any long-term peace agreement remains treacherous, they said.

    Russia is “not interested in an early resolution of the Ukraine crisis,” said Thomas Graham, a senior director for Russia at the National Security Council under George W. Bush and now a fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. “They consistently talk about the root causes, which, as you know, are about the domestic politics in Ukraine, and even more important than that, the European security architecture, which would be the role of NATO. And a simple ceasefire which doesn’t take that into account is of no interest to Russia. And Trump doesn’t appear to understand.”

    Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the Kremlin “was not aware of such recommendations,” calling them “extremely contradictory” and adding, “We are working with more-considered options.”

    The document was prepared by a think tank working closely with the FSB’s Fifth Service, the division that oversees operations in Ukraine, in the week ahead of talks between Russia and the United States in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, which took place on Feb. 18. A Russian academic close to senior Russian diplomats said the main thrust of the recommendations reflects the broad consensus in Moscow, but added that it is never clear to what degree the Kremlin leadership reacts to documents being prepared for it.

    While hawkish members of the Russian elite are urging the Kremlin to continue the war and “use the current situation to advance further,” other groups are pressing for a speedier resolution of the conflict and “for a ceasefire at least,” he said.

    The FSB-linked document lays out ways in which Russia could boost its negotiating position by exacerbating tensions between the United States and both China and the European Union, and by proposing U.S. access to Russian minerals, including in the territories it occupies in Ukraine. Among them is the eastern region of Donbas, where the document says there are reserves of rare-earth metals.

    In an interview on Feb. 24, Russian President Vladimir Putin said much the same when he suggested that Moscow could invite U.S. companies to develop Russian mineral deposits, including in the occupied territories in Ukraine. That appeared to be an effort to undermine a proposed accord on mineral resources development between Ukraine and the United States.

    The document says Russia’s efforts should first be focused on normalizing relations between Washington and Moscow, through the restoration of full diplomatic staffing levels at both countries’ embassies and the appointment of Alexander Darchiev as Russia’s ambassador to the United States — suggestions that emerged publicly after talks between Russian and U.S. officials in Istanbul on Feb. 27, which apparently focused on the operations of their respective diplomatic missions.

    The document proposes that Russia agree not to station its Oreshnik intermediate-range ballistic missiles in Belarus, on the border with the European Union, while in return the United States would agree not to place new missile systems on the continent. It suggests, too, that Russia stop weapons supplies to countries considered “unfriendly” to the United States, while in return the United States would stop arming Ukraine. But it adds that ending Russian arms supplies to Moscow’s allies would be “difficult to realize.”

    The document dismisses what it says are initial proposals made by Trump’s special envoy for Ukraine, retired Lt. Gen. Keith Kellogg, for a peace agreement in which one suggested element would be Ukraine’s ceding of territories taken by Russia and Kyiv’s agreement not to attempt to regain them in the future through military or diplomatic means.

    The FSB-linked document says, however, that even this type of settlement does not go far enough and that without official recognition of Russian sovereignty over the seized region, it is “fairly likely” the armed conflict will resume in the medium term, “for example after the next change of administration in the U.S.”

    The document also dismisses any potential political concessions by Ukraine — such as Kyiv’s rejection of NATO membership and the holding of elections in which pro-Russian parties would be allowed to participate — as not being far-reaching enough. “In reality, the current Kyiv regime cannot be changed from inside the country. Its complete dismantling is needed,” it says.

    The presence of any peacekeeping contingent in Ukraine is also dismissed as “absolutely unnecessary,” since any force would be under “serious Western influence.” U.S. plans to continue arming Ukraine after any peace deal are “absolutely unacceptable,” the document says, as is maintaining the Ukrainian army at its current 1 million-strong level.



    Efforts to entice Russia into a peace deal by offering to partially lift sanctions were also dismissed in the document. “It’s not clear what would be the benefit for Russia,” it says, since “the importance of the factor of sanctions against our country has been clearly exaggerated.”

    Boris Bondarev, a Geneva-based former Russian diplomat, said Russia is trying to lure Trump into talks by demonstrating its “openness and flexibility.” Putin, meanwhile, wants to drag out the negotiations by positioning himself as “a real, true friend to Donald Trump who understands him completely, who … wants to help him achieve his goals in United States,” Bondarev said. “But of course he would need something from him because he cannot do it just free.”

    Dmitri Alperovitch, chairman of the Silverado Policy Accelerator, a national security think tank, said it could be difficult for Putin to reject the ceasefire proposal outright without risking Moscow’s potential realignment with Washington. “The stakes now [in his view] are much more than just Ukraine — the bigger prize is the US-Russia diplomatic normalization, dropping of sanctions, driving a wedge within NATO,” Alperovitch said in a post on X.
     
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  17. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Putin says in the video a "last peace" means he wants US to remove all NATO equipment from Eastern Europe. This is the same deal he gave biden lol. He wants USA to allow him to take over eastern Europe so he can re create the Soviet union.

    Stop embarrassing yourself
     
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  18. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    trump is a bully to other nations when he doesnt get his way, the difference with Ukraine is he is in a box after Zelensky said he wanted peace........which is not what he wanted which is why the Friday press conference was set up to make Ukraine the bad guy. But now trump has to make a choice on what do with his idol putin. Is rh the big tough guy or will he be the cuck to putin I think he is..............I would love to be 100% wrong, but I am afraid trump won't do anything besides some baseless sanctions. If he was strong, he would send more weapons and help Ukraine.........I do see Russian stocks have been soaring ever since trump got back in the Oval....................coincidence?
     
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  19. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    @Nook this is what the MAGA cultists dont comprehend. Abandoning UKR will mean EU knows that America isn't trustworthy and will ditch American defense contractors in droves
     
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  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    TRUMP IS KILLING THIS COUNTRY WITH HIS IGNORANCE.

    DD
     
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