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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. HTM

    HTM Member

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    These aren't ridiculous questions. You simply can't answer without giving up the game so you refuse to.

    The United States leaving Vietnam was good for the communist North Vietnamese government and bad for the South Vietnamese government. Did that action mean the United States supported or became allies with the Taliban? Of course not.

    The United States leaving Afghanistan was good for the Taliban and bad for the Afghan government. Did that action mean the United States supported or became allies with the Taliban? Of course not.

    The United States suspending or curtailing military support for Ukraine is good for Russia and bad for Ukraine. Does that action mean the United States supports or is now allied with Russia? Of course not.
     
  2. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    @Nook this is trumps legacy. A Russian puppet
     
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  3. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    My guy this is an L you're gonna have to swallow.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

    The idea that we owe Ukraine protection from Russia based on this is not clear cut, but there's basically no meaningful distinction between "memorandum" and "treaty" here.
     
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  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Imagine an alternative reality (which seems at least plausible) where JD Vance is against the deal, but Trump was in favor and ready to sign it. He deliberately provoked the ultra-sensitive and reactive egos of others to torpedo the deal. It's not that hard to do.

    P.S. Trump is transactional, but unlike Vance, he never explicitly said, 'I don't care what happens to Ukraine'
     
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  5. astros123

    astros123 Member

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  6. right1

    right1 Member

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    You're off on a tangent. I didn't say those were ridiculous questions. I said it was a ridiculous comparison to compare the Taliban's takeover of Afghanistan (their own country) with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, a sovereign nation.
     
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  7. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    You cheerled while the US blew 8 trillion dollars blowing up piles of trash and shaking down goat herders in the middle east for 20 years. Then when Biden finally ended it you b****ed endlessly about it.

    You don't give a flying **** about peace or the budget.
     
  8. JoeBarelyCares

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    This precisely states Trump's argument as to why the war was Ukraine's fault.
     
  9. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Whether its a foreign war or a civil war, it makes no difference. You're just ducking the questions and refusing to address the point.

    The United States has supported sides in wars before, whether they are civil wars or foreign wars and then ceased that support after some period of time. That didn't mean the United States then became supporters or allies of the party they stopped supporting does it?
     
  10. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    I'd go with the idea Putin wanted to scupper the deal
     
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  11. RB713

    RB713 Member

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    Zelensky looked like Rafael Stone during the trade deadline.
     
  12. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    This was a pure set up, it started by basically making fun of Zelensky of not wearing a suit and said how disrespectful it was.............that set the dominos into effect, I guarantee Vance had his talking points ready to go. trump approves of dictators but not from a country trying to get Democracy.......I have NEVER been embarrassed to be an American. I can now check that off the bingo card. Its sick out the maga sheep parrot trump and putin. We used to beat back the bully and now we are the bully. You can't have a transactional president who does not care about humanity.............oh boy but the red states who need help are about to get a taste of it when snap and systems to help with health care disappear, you cant run the government as a business 100%, you have HUMANS who need help, elmo and trump only care about the bottom line and lining their pockets.............you have elmo making 8 million a day from the USA, where is the THANKS and then you have brain dead folks like MTG saying federal workers are lazy and should not get paid.................30% of the Fed Gov are VETERANS
     
  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Yeah, there really isn’t a meaningful distinction between those two.

    We assure that we respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and refrain from using force or threats against Ukraine (including economic coercion). We also assure that we would seek UN Security Council action if Ukraine is threatened with nuclear weapons.

    We don’t owe Ukraine protection, and technically, we have met and continue to meet our assurances (for now). However, when the U.S. sided with Russia to vote against the UN General Assembly resolution urging Russia’s withdrawal from Ukraine, and proposed a UN Security Council resolution that did not condemn Russia as the aggressor in the conflict, nor acknowledge Ukraine’s territorial integrity, one could argue that they violated one or two of the assurances.
     
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  14. right1

    right1 Member

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    I answered the question, but am still not sure of the point. I was not the one engaging with you regarding this "allies" question. So you want me to respond whether or not ending support for one side in a war means the U.S. becomes a supporter or ally of the other side?
    Well, that depends on many factors. I will say that it makes the U.S. an enabler. So, perhaps, not an "ally", but an enabler of Russia & Putin.
     
  15. RESINator

    RESINator Member

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    Why isn't trump tough on Putin and Russia
    What a wimp
     
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  16. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    I appreciated his outfit. I've seen enough adidas track suits to know that this gentleman was actually dressed up for the occasion by that regions standards.
     
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  17. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    Trump is scared of China

    A stronger Russia that is friendlier to us than China benefits is

    Maybe this is a galaxy brain move to play Putin

    I doubt it

    That was not fun to watch. Even if many of the things trump and Vance said about Ukraine needing our help ... Like it's obvious

    So what are you going to do to fix the situation

    Joe could have ended the war too , if we didn't help at all

    Is isolationism our position ?
     
  18. Sajan

    Sajan Member

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    But in typical American stupidity…if you are not wearing a western suit, you are being disrespectful.

    I bet they wouldn’t have said that to the Saudi prince.
     
  19. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    It does mean we are a pretty shitty ally.
     
  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Trump cut and run on the Kurds the last time around.

    They were the only group the military and CIA spent hundreds of billions building up in our decades-long war on terror that were worth a damn.
     
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