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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. dmoneybangbang

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    What exactly is juvenile?

    On the other end, the isolationists are saying Biden is trying to start WW3 or escalation can lead to WW3. Both sides!

    All the time? What's a good comparison then? Try not to make juvenile one.....

    How do you view the China, Russia, NK, and Iran cooperation? Nothingburger? Juvenile?

    I just said history rhymes and was speaking in the context of appeasements.

    No need to lie..... There is a reason why I've called it the China led order or Illiberal World Order throughout this thread.

    Russia proved it was weak and now the China led order is fueling its war machine while making their own preparations.
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Wouldn't use the R word, but point is right.

    DD
     
    AroundTheWorld and No Worries like this.
  3. HTM

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    People with a crude understanding of the WW2 ante bellum period trying to draw parallels with 2024 and drawing definitive conclusions about the future.

    As if, because some dictator in the late 1930s gobbled up his neighbors, ipso facto, that means the same result will occur in 2024 if another dictator gobbles up some of his neighbors.


    I don't need to use comparisons. I can exam the facts of the current situation and draw a conclusion.

    These countries have been aligned in an anti-western/U.S. posture for decades. So what?


    Hey guys, a famous appeasement happened one time, therefore, ipso facto, if we let Putin take Ukraine now we're going to necessarily have a similar result. As if the material conditions are all exactly the same and will produce the exact same result. :rolleyes:


    Ok. So what? You just said Russia is weak. Great. They aren't going to be getting too far in their future wars of aggression then. China wants to launch a war of aggression? Where? Taiwan? Anywhere else? Who cares? Why should I care if a small island 50 miles off the Chinese coast is conquered by China? Most Americans can't find Taiwan on a map. Most would probably be surprised to learn its not part of China already.
     
  4. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    I'm confused about something. Biden gives Ukraine the green light to use our supplied missiles to strike targets deeper into Russia. Republicans balk and complain about Biden trying to start WWIII on his way out of office as some kind of sabotage. So, why didn't Trump just state publicly that Zelensky shouldn't use those missiles to do that as it would have repurcussions when he comes into office as far as negotiating a peace and only inflame the situation? Are you telling me Trump couldn't say something to deter this when he has a public opinion on everything else? Or, did I miss something?
     
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  5. FranchiseBlade

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    It is referenced because it is famous and is a point people with only a casual interest in history will understand the reference. With a message board format and the lack of space to go in depth it makes sense to use those examples.
    I asked for other examples of unprovoked invasions and annexations, and I believe what you gave me was an example from what I beleive was the Spanish American war. That means, it was part of a war and not necessarily an unprovoked land grab.
     
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  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    [​IMG]

    Running out of runway Russia
     
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  7. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Yea a bunch of countries bordering Russia or in its historic sphere of influence do have a lot more to fear from Russia then someone in the United States.
     
  8. FranchiseBlade

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    So you admit countries near Russia have a reason to fear from their militaristic expansion. Thank you for admitting that.
     
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  9. Invisible Fan

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    If Russia gets everything it wants from a peace agreement, it would be like agreeing they have free reign to invading a smaller nation like Georgia and probing our response.

    Should Trump pull out of NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if Putin invaded a country like Estonia and creating a NATO crisis by testing the remaining countries' resolve.

    The West was close to bailing on Ukraine, with Biden offering Zelensky a ticket out of Kiev. Western countries only poured in aid after their government resisted the initial invasion.

    People can doubt whether Putin would risk thermonuclear war should other countries trigger Article 5, but would Britain or France risk nukes as a response for a fallen capital?

    That's the dynamic general discussion isn't making, where Putin already miscalculated into thinking the West would be weak and not form a unified response.

    He could be right the next time if he gets off easy this time.
     
  10. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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  11. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Why that’s because Donald Trump has the utmost respect for the Logan Act which is a law that states there can only be one government at a time, and you are not legally allowed to undermine the current policy of a sitting president….



    Yeah… it’s all a Russian talking point put out there to try and dissuade Biden by being able to see a shift in public sentiment. Trump doesn’t care enough to comment at least yet. I don’t think these guys are thinking about anything other than playing the reality tv show of Trump appointments and having people come to Mar A Lago to kiss the ring. The guy is barely even posting on social media right now which tells you he just isn’t paying attention to anything other than his beauty pageant at the moment.

    Marco Rubio as the very likely to be confirm SOS is im sure paying attention and while publicly he will walk the Trump line privately he’s no fan of Putin and he’s smart enough to know that there’s some more leverage here to give Trump in a potential negotiation. If Trump wants a deal Putin needs to be feeling some pain otherwise he’ll sit back and wait for Kyiv to fold after their weapon supplies run dry.

    So yeah it’s all a Russian bot talking point. Trump obviously is in his own world right now quite literally and seemingly doesn’t care about much else. If he was paying attention I’m sure he’d be posting on his fake twitter all day about it.
     
  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    It also seems like Biden cut a deal where they’ll coordinate the transition for Trump if he publicly takes a break on social media and lowers the political temperature a bit. Of course Congress and the right wing media still are sh$tting on liberals for a living but you see a remarkable lack of sh$tposting from Trump right now which tells me the transition is probably contingent on him taking a break from dividing America. We’ll see if that can last another two months. I’m doubtful but who knows. My guess is he’s actually talking to Biden quite a bit through the transition too behind the scenes. Those two guys probably get along much better in real life than you’d think.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

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    I am on Klitschko's side.

     
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  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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  15. dmoneybangbang

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    You just don’t like the concept of alliances.
     
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  16. HTM

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    What do Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania bring to an alliance with the United States?
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    Well if you believe the NATO alliance brings something to US interests....

    Why are the Baltic states strategically important for NATO?

    Basically geography. They are small countries without large militaries, but aside from being the frontline they invested heavily in cyber capabilities for NATO.
     
  18. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Geography? What about their geography? Explain yourself.

    Do I believe the United States of America became safer after March 29, 2004 when Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia joined NATO? No. Those countries bring almost no conventional military capacity to the alliance and extended NATOs liabilities to the border of Russia and directly into their historical sphere of influence.

    These countries are almost purely a liability. The American people have now become guarantors of their security and yes, those countries are now guarantors of American security... but, you know.. we don't need their help and the help they could provide is marginal anyway.
     
  19. dmoneybangbang

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    What was confusing about the article I linked?
     
  20. HTM

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    Nothing. I didn't say the article was confusing. It's a perfectly mediocre and uninteresting article chat GPT could have written. I'm not sure what you believe this article is communicating to me.

    It doesn't really discuss discuss geography other then to say the Baltics border Russia, are heavily forested and flat... great?

    Now, how does the addition of the Baltic states materially strengthen NATO due to their geography like you claimed?
     

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