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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Member

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    Yall would spin anything to "support" your party.

    You are the war mongering party of the left.

    Oh have times changed.
     
    Space Ghost likes this.
  2. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    I think you are right. Granted, I don't think Putin actually gives a crap about infrastructure or lives.
     
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  3. Xopher

    Xopher Member
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    Wait. Weren't you posting Xeets saying Biden was 100% sane and trolled the Dems so he could vote for Trump? Schrodinger's Biden?
     
    No Worries and FranchiseBlade like this.
  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Probably not. I think he might actually welcome his people getting killed in order to shake things up, justify escalation, and necessity to utilize North Korean troops in Ukraine.

    However i think the thinking from Biden is to try and give Zelensky something to leverage in the coming talks with Trump and Putin. If Biden is giving them purely to spite Putin for fcking around in our Democracy then its probably warranted but I don't know that it has much strategic value for the US moving forward.

    Ukraine should have had the ability to counterattack Russia from the get go. Us micromanaging their war strategy just made it look like we have our hand in their war anyways. Russia invaded Ukraine. If Mexico invaded Texas & bombed Houston to smithereens, do you think the US would get any grief if they then attacked Mexico City?? You think it would matter that much in that case if the bullets the US used in fire fights in Mexico City were made in Germany?

    It's all kind of pointless but Biden doing this now just sends a message that either there is a change due to helping with these talks that Trump will force Ukraine into, or just pure spite for Putin attacking our Democratic process so blatantly.
     
  5. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Hahah. You guys are such pathetic sh$t talkers.

    War mongering.... ahahaa... yeah just wait a$$hole. You think wars are going to decrease under a REPUBLICAN government???? HAHAHHAHAHAHA
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Have the times changed to not standing up to the adversaries of the United States and not supporting a democracy invaded by those same authoritarian adversaries of the United States?

    Is that the kind of change you would like?
     
  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Times haven't changed. You are going to see the Republican party not decreasing military actions, but just shifting our resources at their "enemies" in a way that better lines the pockets of the billionaires that run the party from the sideline.

    I'm going to love hearing briefings from Ms "Regime Change" high and mighty from DNI when she has to explain why the United States is trying to change the regime of Iran.

    The thing though is that Iraq will again be an incredibly important launchpoint for military operations. Do you think the regime in Iraq right now and the people of Iraq are going to love hundreds of thousands of US military back in their country again? Keep in mind that the current president of Iraq is a Kurd. Do you not think what Trump did years ago to the Kurds won't play any type of role here in that relationship? If the Turks/Erdogan go to war with the Kurds in Iraq do you not think that'll play any sort of role where the US just sits on the sideline??

    It's just so stupid to claim that Trump is some sort of drastic change here. No US admin has ever wanted war with Russia or the Soviet Union. Yes Putin is evil, but it's still not a drastic change to be trying to decrease tensions with that country. It has always been about fighting the battle in those pesky brown countries, and making sure the pockets of the billionaires and oil and gas oligarchs are well lined.
     
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  8. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    It is nice to not be toppling regimes we just don't like. Certainly was a time we'd be doing a lot more in places like Venezuela (though maybe we are, as the Maduro claims). 2022 was the first year since 2000 that we didn't lose a service member to hostile action.
     
    dobro1229 and FranchiseBlade like this.
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I suspect Ukraine's going to have to concede a bit extra for Russian concessions to Trump on the Iran-Israel conflict.
     
  10. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    What leverage does Biden's decision give them if Trump cuts off support? A month or two of long range weapons?
    Ukraine is free to attack Russia directly. They are not allowed (up until now) to attack Russia directly with US Weapons.
    There is only one real question that needs to be asked - Will the US continue to allow Starlink to operate in war zones?
     
  11. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Member

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    They certainly did last time Trump was in office.

    Or are we living in fairy rainbow land as usual.

    Whole point of the post is just to show that you guys will do what your master says every time.

    Yall have yet to break from the chains. Will never change either.
     
  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Explaining why something might or might not be happening is not the same thing as heaping praise at the people doing those actions.

    You are obviously just projecting your own subservience to Trump by making it seem as though everyone else is the gullible fool to make yourself feel better.

    Whatever you need in life to make you feel better about yourself I guess. Hopefully being an idiot on the internet helps you self medicate in a way that keeps you from hurting yourself or others. Because you obviously are not well in the head.
     
  13. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Im speaking to inventory of certain types of weaponry. People here are wondering why and I’m just simply saying why I think they are changing course. Not saying that I am some massive endorser of Biden’s strategy. I thought they did a good job at the beginning of bringing NATO along with us for a unified approach of supporting. I don’t quite understand why this decision took so long. I’m on the side that I don’t think it changes a damn thing if a Ukrainian made bomb hits Moscow vs one made in Huntsville Alabama by Raytheon.

    The Kremlin is going to say it’s the US attacking them by proxy regardless because of the propaganda in Russia they need to push. Even if the US never gave Zelenskyy a red cent, the Kremlin will regardless blame the US and NATO just as the Republicans will blame the Democrats for everything. Ignore the Kremlin’s chest beating at just make smart decisions in the best interest of the US.

    And yes it is in the best interest of the US for a tyrant who tries to take over a neighboring sovereign nation to be defeated.
     
  14. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Member

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    Really,

    Trump is the closest thing we have had to a real Centrist candidate in our lifetime. Which embodies common sense.

    Point is, the old democrat way of thinking is more in line with Trump then what you support now.

    Biden allowing Ukraine to use missiles as a form of proxy war is driving us towards a WWIII. Yes, I don't want that because I am not r****ded.

    Common sense is so far gone between the loonies in here. It is wild.

    Not well in the head? You support a war mongering government in an attempt to facilitate a world war. And I am not right in the head? LOL
     
  15. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Its important to understand Ukraine is not a formal ally of the US. Understanding this clarifies two positions.
    1) Ukraine was suppose to stay neutral. By not staying neutral, this feeds into the Russian propaganda that the west continues to encroach on their border. In the grand scheme, none of this matters and its all political posturing. We have beaten this topic up enough.
    2) While countries can certainly arbitrarily provide arms to anyone they deem a 'strategic partner', this runs the risk of our adversaries providing advanced weaponry to groups we deem a security threat (we call them terrorist these days). I don't think we want Russia arming Mexican cartels they have deemed as strategic partners. Its a two way street. It would look pretty bad if a mexican cartel smuggled a Russian short range missile through hte Biden Administrations open border policy only to launch it into a high rise. The United States has much to lose on an 'anything goes' policy.
     
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    The "Ukraine was supposed to stay neutral" point really makes no sense. Ukraine was supposed to stay neutral about... Russia invading Ukraine?? Okay..

    Or are you saying that Ukraine was supposed to stay a non NATO country and it then became a NATO country??... Because that's not true at all. Even then, the Kremlin talking point about NATO expansion PROVOKING them is nonsense. It's a defensive treaty only so as long as Russia wasn't invading a NATO country, it had nothing to worry about.

    You could make a point that Europe needed the US to take a step back in it's NATO influence, and have it be more led by European countries which is an argument with more merit. Even though essentially all of the top NATO officials are actually European for the most part. But countries in Europe like Finland, Sweden, etc... These are countries that are not beholden to Russia, and have the right to join any alliance they want.

    But all this is noise.... Can we be honest here for 2 seconds??

    The real reason why Putin invaded was because finally Ukraine was functionally cleaning up it's act as a true Democracy that was no longer influenced heavily by Putin's corruption to where they were operating as a vassal state. With the elections electing real people beholden to the people of Ukraine, and not financially bought off by the Kremlin like nearly every other Ukrainian president, Putin knew that it was only a matter of time before Ukraine became part of the EU, and it was only a matter of time where Ukraine became a more central player in the global economy.

    Putin invaded because he knew that Russia was losing more and more influence in the world, and instead of Putin pushing Russia to simply be better at making sh$t, or being a country that can offer the best science, technology, etc.... he thought that it's easier to just steal rather than create for yourself.

    Russia has more land mass than any other country in the world. It's well populated, and has access to Asia, Europe, and the Middle East easily. There is no reason why Russia should not be a great country, but because Putin has turned Russia into a failed state economically, and has failed to increase it's influence around the world.... well... a thug only knows how to do thugish things as an answer to all his problems. As they say if you only have a Hammer, everything looks like a nail.

    Nowhere in your posts do you ever give Russia, and Putin ANY AGENCY here as I just did. That's what is frustrating about these conversations with you. The situation is complex with centuries of history yes, but at the heart of the matter this isn't that complicated. This is in the end a problem of ONE MAN... and that one man's failures to where those failures leads him to the only tool he has in his tool box time and time again.

    Russia deserves better. Ukraine in the end is a victim of his corruption, and now his violence. No they were not a NATO ally, but Putin has done everything wrong in a way that makes that option all the more viable every day. It's Putin's failures, and corruption that are at the heart of all of this.
     
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  17. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Trump is no where near a centrist. He's run on the most hawkish immigration policy. He's tripled down on trickle down economics. He's moved the Judiciary the farthest right it has been in decades. He is a populist, but so is Bernie Sanders.
     
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  18. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Just tells you how serious this guy is to even make that claim. Tells you how much time and effort he deserves as a response.
     
    Deckard likes this.
  19. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Member

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    You do realize Democrats have at one point been "hawkish" on immigration.

    Were in the worst economy since the 80's for the average American. What economic plan are we currently running?
     
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Why would anybody willingly admire this person?

    [​IMG]


    what a miserable, sad being.
     

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