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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    I complained about Euro spending a few pages back, but they've stepped up within their means because of the delayed House bill.

    The big 60B EU bill isn't about pure aid, but more about earmarking funds for Ukraine admission.

    That's a game changer as Ukranian oil would greatly reduce dependence on Russia or relatively expensive LNG imports from US or Qatar.

    The reality is that Putin will always antagonize the West so long as NATO exists. This means election interference, electronic warfare, espoinage, the occasional nuclear threat, and the occasional invasion of a former Soviet Bloc neighbor.

    For us, it becomes a binary decision, to support Ukraine and confront Putin's antagonism head first, or to let go of Ukraine and pull out of NATO because the EU is moving heavily towards the former in defense of its increasingly hostile neighbor.

    But just because we pull out of NATO doesn't mean Putin or Xi will stop ****ing with us. They don't respect weak losers who abandon their friends.

    Sorry Trump + MAGATs...it's not that EZ
     
  2. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    Ranger school is not the 75th Ranger Regiment. Totally different thing. Ranger school is a couple months suck fest that is a leadership school. 75th Ranger Regiment is special operations.


    Well... when you are undertaking a massive battle like Fallujah that is highly publicized and the Marines actually had reporters embedded with them that is probably a good idea to roll out the older guys. Also your point on that battle is accurate. One of my best friends was in the Marines. His unit took part in the initial invasion of Iraq and was awarded a Presidential Unit Citation. They also went door to door in Fallujah.

    Rangers do business a little different than the Marines and were USUALLY working at night.
     
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  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    He simply does not know what he’s talking about or is (more likely) propagating a lie to serve his political narrative.

    The Secretary General aka “leader” of NATO is Norwegian. He is not a Biden appointee or a Democrat or a Rino Republican.

    The US is one of 31 other countries involved in this alliance. Only 2 of the 31 are in North America. The alliance originated in France under the Treaty of Dunkirk until the Truman Doctrine helped expand it to the US and Canada.

    Yes the US gives the most money because we have the highest GDP and of course the largest contributor has a great deal of say so & influence.

    But yes the US leaving NATO is important because it would tip the scales and would have a cascading effect that could ultimately lead to war spreading in Europe and war in Europe ALWAYS will affect the rest of the world.

    The fact is we do not live on an island and our economy could never be what it is without the rest of the world … well being at war with each other. All of the America First things that space ghost and Glynch say they want are not possible economically if the world is at war and that obviously impacts our economy in a way that makes paying for domestic things much more difficult.

    They both also propagate this lie that the US and NATO “provoked” Putin which is nonsense. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy on Putins part where his provocations are the things that scared the crap out of countries like Finland enough to pursue NATO themselves. It is also a defensive treaty and cannot be invoked as an offensive alliance.

    More than anything Space Ghost is simply gaslighting. He knows that folks like you and I care deeply about the US improving areas around our healthcare, education, etc. So he uses that against you and I as a way to try and make you feel like it’s either or in the hopes that you’ll in your mind feel guilty about caring about what happens in Ukraine.

    It’s simply gaslighting and it’s pure propaganda that serves Putin’s narrative and ultimately Putin himself.
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Understand he wasn’t deployed with the 75th Ranger Regiment but 10th Mountain. He had gone through the Ranger school.
     
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  5. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  6. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Republicans Germans and John Kerry love Russia.
     
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I lost a cousin in the second battle of Fallujah, and my wife lost several family members in the Iraqi war - as they were actually killed by Insurgents from outside of Iraq because they were Assyrian - at least that is what we were told by others that were there.

    I had the opportunity to meet David Bellavia, and didn't know he was ex-military until the second time I talked to him and only found out that he was a Medal of Honor winner after someone in our office came up to him and demanded to shake his hand and comment on his bravery. FWIW he was very intense but had a quiet demeanor and very clearly did not like people coming up to him and asking him about his honors.... we mostly talked about baseball and the crime issues in the USA.
     
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  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    He never said what the claim is.......

    While I understand John Kerry cares greatly about emissions, and it is important - and is important in parts of Europe and to a lesser degree is important in China because their emissions were literally killing their citizens - the idea that Russia under Putin will ever give a **** about emissions is hilarious..... Russian men have a life expectancy of like 56 years right now....... alcohol, disease, domestic violence, poverty, failing utilities and sucking it up is the Russian cocktail that the citizens have been told to follow.
     
  9. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Sorry for your l
    Sorry for your horrible loss. This excuses your name calling. It does further reinforce the tragedy that negotiations such as Minsk II were not completed so that the unnecessary war would not have started. Let us all hope that new negotiations to end the war can prevent such other losses.
     
  10. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    You can define a truce as Russia getting out of Ukraine if you want no negotiations and wish to continue the war. Well a truce could be also Russia leaves Ukraine, except for Crimea (Russia warm water port sometimes in Russis sometimes in Ukraine since around 1798 iirc and the two oblast Donetsk and Luhansk return to Ukraine with some negotiated autonomy and Ukraine agrees not to join NATO -- essentially what Russia and Ukraine olmost signed off on before the US through Boris Johnson nixxed two months into the war.
     
  11. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    lol I agree with ATW. Of course the politico Kerry was like Biden a voter FOR the first more legal Gulf War I and Against Gulf War II.
     
  12. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Accelerationists going to accelerationist.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    [
    "Look, i didn't WANT to have to launch a bloody 3 day special military operation that turned into a 2 year festival of war crimes committed by me- but... MINSK II, therefore I must"


    - a ****ing Idiot.
     
  14. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Stretching too thin Vlad?

    DD
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Russia has no right to tell Ukraine if they can or cannot enter NATO. At one point Russia could have entered NATO but choose a poor path.

    Sure - Ukraine can give up parts of its country to Russia. If Ukraine invades Russia a month after they have a “truce”, does that mean Russia has to give up part of its country?

    This is simple - Russia invaded another sovereign country. They can make concessions.
     
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  17. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    when?
     
  18. Xopher

    Xopher Member
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  19. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Well thank you Neville Chamberlain.
     
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