No... you are lying while blaming others with lying. The main point people make is that with the rise of brazen dictatorships in this modern era, it's important that nations respect other nations sovereignty, and not invade their neighbors with military force. So the deterrence of the example set by Russia failing in Ukraine, helps deter China from invading Taiwan, North Korea from attacking South Korea, etc. etc. It's a pretty simply principle that leads one to the obvious example that... NO we don't need to go to war with Russia, but we should support a country like Ukraine with supplies in order to defend themselves. If an alien came down from Mars, and checked your posts to understand the Ukraine war, I'm 110% sure they would just assume that the United States has at least 200,000 troops on the ground in Ukraine, and likely is attacking Russia on Russian soil as well. Yes there is a chance that Putin does attack a NATO country either in a spillover event, or just outright aggression. Then yes we are bound by our alliance to go to attack Russia directly. But NOBODY actually wants that to happen. They want to DETER further action in order to save military lives. A few other points to debunk your BS: -Russia has more land mass than any other country in the world, yet they have a GDP that is 2 times smaller than just one of our states in California. Why the hell would Ukraine welcome being part of Russia just to support their economy vs fighting for their country and having a future where they could be a big part of the EU, and be one of the largest exporters of food across the world especially a developing Africa continent?? Ukraine is not choosing to destroy it's economy. When you bomb major cities to the ground like Russia has, you kind of you know... destroy THEIR economy. This notion that Ukraine and the US chose the box that says "yes let's destroy the Ukrainian economy" is nonsense. That was Putin's choice. -There is no "Ends Justify the Means" argument from anyone. The Biden admin, and all of Europe negotiated for months with the Kremlin to avoid them invading Ukraine. You are so incredibly disingenuous in your propagated point here that the West WANTED Russia to invade Ukraine. Nobody wanted that. Especially Europe who knew they would would suffer from being cutoff of natural gas supplies, and all of those Democratic political leaders in Europe knew it could cost them their elections when their economies took a hit. You make this point all the time with no evidence, and the only reason I can think of why you would continue to make it is because you are so pro Putin that you just cannot help yourself but propagate lies to justify PUTIN's war.
Right - but the US has in large part backed out of Iraq so that influence at this point is based on what has already happened. Iran on the other hand is actively pushing to influence Iraq right now. Iraq is also lumped in with Palestine and other nations - when really they have always been more secular. There are a decent amount of older Iraqi's that will tell you that ISIS was as bad or worse than US occupation, and even the feelings over Hussein were mixed. You have to realize that Hussein kept religious extremism out of Iraq for the most part, that he also had strong borders and predictable rules. The real issue for many of those in Iraq was his sons and more so the standoff between Hussein and the USA.
We should already be in the Ukraine with boots on the ground, and kicking Russia back to their own country..... DD
I agree. Other than Sadam and his sons being tyrants, what he wanted for Iraq was closer to western values than Iran. Iraq was personal for Bush Jr and I think Saddam dumping dollars for Euros was really what set everything in motion for the political machine. Venezuela became public enemy number 2 around the same time for the same reason.
Why are we talking about the invasion of Iraq which has nothing to do with the anything going on in Ukraine? It is clear gaslighting to try to deflect away from the main point of this war. Which is Putin attacked a neighboring country for it's resources, more power/leverage, domestic politics, and for his own narcissism to insert himself into history. No we don't the correct level of moral authority over Putin because of Iraq, but it has nothing do with how we move forward as a country, and world super power. We can never allow another Iraq to happen, and we certainly need to work alongside the rest of the free world to ensure that invading country's for these same reasons never happens as well with anyone else. Just because Germany and Hitler caused the Holocaust does not mean the country of Germany automatically cannot ever step in to help another country avoid being a victim of genocide. We can remember the past, and atone for it while progressing towards a better world. Just because you make mistakes does not mean you immediately have to let mistakes fall onto others, and allow human suffering.
I dont doubt for a second Putin would take over eastern Europe and attack NATO nations if he had the means. Russia does not have the means to extend a war very far from its borders. Air support would destroy russian forces very handily once they got away from their borders. And again, China does not want Europe at war. China risks collapsing should that occur and Russia is completely dependent on China at this point. There is some truth that a worse case scenario (NATO dissolving and China collapsing) is a very real possibility and that is something Russia would very much enjoy.
Really??... that sounds like news to me. If you read Space Ghost's posts here you'd think that war monger Joe Biden, and the Libs in Congress just randomly decided to started dropping bombs on Moscow.
Europeans should be able to defend themselves without American assistance. America can defend itself just fine without European assistance.
They need tp spend more money on defense. They are mostly broke, and talk is cheap. You could claim the congress was responsible for Ukraine losing Adivka but the Euros wasn't sending their all to Ukraine either. Manny didn't send his destroyer to be shot at by Hootie rebels at the Red Sea either. The free riding is real despite the panic mongering. Having said that, there are huge and real costs and consequences if any president pulls out or welshes on our commitments.
The world will be a less safe place if all of Europe is at war with each other and are also nuclear powers.
Yes, they should be able to. But together, they are much stronger and more powerful. Together, they form a much stronger deterrent force than separately. If Ukraine were part of NATO, Russia might never have dared to invade. And if it did, Russia would likely be defeated already.
Talk is cheap. They are spending more. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/02/trump-nato-comments-europe-nato-defense-russia.html NATO’s 30 European members (in addition to their trans-Atlantic partners, the U.S. and Canada) have been spending more money on defense since 2014, when Russian President Vladimir Putin annexed Crimea, and even more since 2022, when he invaded all of Ukraine. Although just three of the countries were fulfilling their pledge to spend at least 2 percent of their GDP on defense, 18 are on track to hit or surpass the mark this year.
We could just as well stop harping on the war like a bunch of self righteous clowns and start talking about domestic problems. Except we know none of these politicians are not interest in solving problems.
I'd argue that article you provided supports my reply in spirit more than yours. I look forward to that day as well. Yet, as Garton Ash (a strong advocate of NATO) has acknowledged elsewhere, that day is not coming soon—and may even be more distant than he’d hoped in his book. Semantically, they are spending more on defense. They'd be fools not to after cutting off the gasline that tanked their economy in 2023 with UK and Germany now reeling in recession. It's the same way that broke af Ferntits is now spending more... After 4+ years gutting the team for LTS, you can't call him cheap because he busted out those 20M+ contracts. Nope, still can for obvious reasons.
