Good idea, but the folks who buy the politicians and lobby the politicians don't make the same return on health education and helping poor folks as they do on juicy cost plus weapons systems with only a couple of suppliers at most.
Thank you bro. In fact I’ve promised myself not to post here but once in a while when I look at how many hands from your country are in pockets of the Middle East, I’m overwhelmed by the thought of: regular Americans are freaking great people why should they not be better off whether through the profits of 60 years of invasion or by withdrawing completely and cutting off that expense which swallows 60% of what you’re forking over in taxes. Really saddens me that the propaganda WORKS. Americans think something beneficial is happening around their bases or that they have no choice but to do it - that’s most Americans who think that and it’s so crazy. We’ll be fine and you’ll be fine and we can fight threats in your country and my region together. Eventually - in the distant future - we will still be here and you will be back home. There’s no doubt about that. On that day Americans will wonder what they got for 60 years of invasions and narratives that practically no one in the Middle East believed. Our worst leaders and your worst leaders will have been enriched by it and there will be nothing to share as we pick the pieces up. My thought is let’s get ahead of this and not wait for a forced violent withdrawal. That’s a cost that will destroy us financially and everyone will lose a lot of lives unlike in the invasion period where the kill rate is like 1 American for every 200+ middle easterners. Nothing to gain from the in the future and nothing has ever been gained from that in the past. I truly deeply sincerely without any hate believe middle easterners and American citizens are the ones who share interests now. We have the same goal. The people who are robbing my free speech and your taxes are one and the same. I’ll get my speech eventually but the money is never coming to you guys if we carry on this way till it implodes. Hope that when I’m passionate in these discussions people can fight that programmed voice that tell them I don’t like them. If I didn’t like Americans I’d be calling for a war not for withdrawal and a handshake.
You’re one of my favorite posters, so the feeling is mutual. Obviously we disagree but there’s nothing I can say if you aren’t sharing specifics.
Russian victories shake global leaders’ faith in Ukraine war prospects Statespeople, diplomats, military brass and spies at a defence conference this weekend fear war is tilting in Moscow’s favour https://www.ft.com/content/4ae05ba9-34bd-4a53-bf6d-8b8b660b64c1
I’m going to note again you admit to not having free speech or the vote in your country. Yet you’ve taken it upon yourself to blame the US and criticize the US. Many in the US are well aware of our problems, work on it but most importantly can criticize our leader ship and vote against them. That is why I’ve continued to emphasize the importance of our constitution and that the most important things for us as Americans is to maintain that order. Most of your posts here and from your history is expressing grievances, defensiveness about your country you’re basically a critic of the US while both defending your country and admitting you can’t do much about it. I would take your argument far more seriously if you were like the people in Hong Kong who opposing their government so they can have things like free speech.
City’s Fall Leaves Ukraine With an Even Tougher Fight Ahead After the capture of Avdiivka, Ukrainian forces will need a new defensive line in unforgiving terrain, while Russia tries to press its advantage. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/18/world/europe/ukraine-russia-strategy-avdiivka.html
This war has led to hundreds of thousands of deaths of young Ukrainians and Russians. A whole generation of kids lost. The western sanctions and removal of SWIFT slowed Russia but it figured out a market solution to get its goods. Russians by and large support the war against their neighbor. War is violence to achieve political goals. And these are the goals of a man whose Ambition is to remake the Russian empire. Somehow Russia gets a pass for its colonization efforts because it was on land and not by sea. I do not think Ukraine can win at this point. They do not have enough people or industry to withstand the hordes of Russian troops in their lands. They have no support in the GOP. Germany and France have not shown they’re able to meet the Ukrainian needs. Technology can help even the fight but at some point an overwhelming force overwhelms the smaller better armed force.
If you look at Russian history in many of their invasions they’ve had overwhelming force but have lost badly. There attempted invasion of Finland in WWII went very poorly and as we know in Afghanistan they eventually had to withdraw. Things are very difficult for Ukraine but they are far from being defeated. We also have to remember at the beginning of the invasion Ukraine didn’t have a whole lot of western advanced weapons but the Soviet era weapons. They were still able to stop Russia from rolling over the country and force a humiliating retreat in the Russians from the outskirts of Kyiv.
I've already addressed that with you: I will get free speech and the vote eventually because in my country everything improves all the time. I will have free speech and you guys will still be debating whether abortion is a good idea. I'm not worried about this. It's not our #1 issue. The #1 issue in the Middle East is over 80% of the citizens want the US out. The #2 issue is we want Israelis (government, not people) out. The #3 issue is quality of life. We are different than you culturally and are happy to curb a little more speech than you (though nowhere near as much as it is right now). We understand priorities over here. We know sovereignty comes before civil rights. You don't understand that free speech with a corrupt government is just a great excuse to keep being corrupt. I want my free speech in our hands, not the CIA's hands. Don't need your advice on this, I can see what type of system you support and no one wants that broken thing. You really don't understand the Middle East. If there's no free speech, how would you know if someone in Dubai was doing what Hong Kongers did before they label them terrorists and arrest them? You think if I did that I would type it out here? Over and over again, you show that you have absolutely no idea how the Middle East works and what the real risks are to us where we live. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with what we want. It's what we want. If your country had a UAE military base in Washington and 90% of citizens were against it, how much would you care about the UAE or a citizen of the UAE telling you you don't want the right things? That's what you're doing here. It's ridiculous. I'm still waiting for the place you were as critical of the US in the UAE as you are of Britain in India. Since you have principles n all.
Ukraine is not the beacon of purity, righteousness and the shining example of democracy that many seem to lean towards. From the very beginning I have compared this to other countries around the globe who struggle but yet America doesn't care about because it does not serve Americas interests. Western propaganda suggests the fight is about supporting the victims of Ukraine when that is complete BS. Its strictly about western interests, not the people. When I hear our politicians talk about the need to help and defend the Ukrainian people, all I hear is echos from the early 2000's decrying the fear of Iraq possessing WMD's. This isn't 1991 Operation Desert Shield, this is 2003 Operation Desert Storm. No, they are not exactly similarities, but the intentions are the same. People need to listen to what Putin is saying and stop dismissing it and taking the opposite side of the argument like Republicans and Democrats do. Yes it is propaganda like everything that comes from governments. If you can accept that what the United States states is propaganda just as easily as you can accept what Putin is stating is also propaganda, you can understand the overall message better. I do acknowledge that is a child's fantasy and the usual suspects will show up and call me a Putin bootlicker or a Russian sympathizer. My interpretation of Putins message is this - Europe (which includes Russia) has been in conflict for centuries. America has been around for a mere 250 years, with less than 100 of that as a global power house. We have no enemies at our borders and two massive oceans to protect us. The United States does not understand multi ethnic conflict and has a very valuable redeeming quality of being a melting pot. Blathering on about how sacred the Ukraines sovereignty is a pathetic sanctimonious cry considering the plight of the first nationers on the North American continent. As Mathloom is stating and so many other people in this country, the US has too many domestic problems on its hands that should be attending to instead of being right in the middle of Europes never ending conflicts. Yes, Russia stands to gain much by the United States leaving, but as I have stated multiple times, Russia is not our biggest threat. The United States did great work at the beginning of the 20th century nation building, but now all we do is destruction and protecting the current regimes interest of holding wealth and power. Something else to understand is that American Democracy doesnt work for everyone and its not welcomed by everyone. America's 'freedom of speech' is not as strong as you make it out to be. The war on fake news and misinformation proves this. Free speech in this country is actively being attacked and suppressed. The United States is a great country and will continue to be for a long time to come. I am not anti-American but I do believe we can do so much more for our country if we can get past these self serving jackasses currently running the show.
WHO GIVES A ****?????? ^^^^^^^ Russia is our enemy, we should have put the Ukraine into NATO - at this point.....any settlement has immediate NATO membership. DD
Honestly - I have to decide if I have the time and effort needed to discuss it in the detail that it would require. It isn't personal, I just have a lot going on in my head and at work right now.
I don't know anyone that believes that Ukaine is a beacon of purity and righteousness. Ukraine however did not invade Russia, it was Russia, on it's own accord - that decided to invade Ukraine because Russia is economically and socially collapsing and Ukraine would bring them some degree of financial help long term and would more importantly prop up their ego. Yeah - not remotely close. We are not talking about invading another nation, and we are not talking about troops on the ground and we are not talking about weapons of mass destruction. Really - there is no similarities. No - people do not need to listen to Putin. He is a dictator, and not even a really good one at that. The quality of life in Russia is the worst it has been since they were invaded by Germany. The average male life expectancy is in the mid 50's. The education and economic outlook is terrible. The quality of life indexes are some of the worst in the world. The infrastructure is falling apart. The level of corruption is the worst in the world - and all of these measures have progressively gotten worse under Putin. Putin offers no more insight than Hitler or Stalin or any other dictator did. This doesn't really mean anything. Democracy doesn't work for everyone and that is fine. I don't know what "great country" even means. There are many measures. What I do know is that Putin has been a failure and a bane to many.
Ukraine has had a Nazi problem. Putin is exploiting it and embellishing it to justify his actions but the Ukrainian government/people haven't done themselves any favors openly associating with Nazis.
Again. Not the united states problem. Its Europes problem and the status quo's problem. United States has too many other domestic problems to solve that people with this mindset keep ignoring. NOT OUR PROBLEM. Healthcare, poverty, homelessness and education are much bigger problem. Why do you continue to believe the Russian/Ukraine conflict is more important than these issues? Is it because your media sources continue to tell you so? Actually yes, you should listen to them. What you are otherwise saying is the people you choose to listen are morally and ethically superior. Listening to someone doesn't make them better or righteous. You are in other words denying the people in power you listen to are not feeding you propaganda. "Weapons of mass destruction" was propaganda and many people died because of this lie and you are perfectly ok with it as long as your team wins. Yes, I am absolutely more concerned about the well being of our country than Ukraine falling to Russian power. Our complete education system is in serious trouble. How did we ever get someone like Donald Trump in office? And I find it so bizarre that many people believe Donald Trump is the worst we can do. It can and will get worse if we do not start focusing inwards. Do you not see this? Is your ego and will to be right so much more important than focusing on domestic issues?
It depends on the consequences of Ukraine falling to Russia on the topic of whether it is the United States problem or not. You are barking up the wrong tress on the issues of poverty, homelessness and education issues - as I am very involved in all three, and have complained for sometime that the Republican Party does not care about any of these issues, and that the Democratic Party largely pays lip service to these concerns. You can point to these concerns - but it is largely a red herring, as the United States politicians are not taking money from these services and sending them to Ukraine. The United States at this point simply lacks the appetite to address these issues. One party doesn't think it really is a problem, and the other one is more concerned with tax breaks for the wealthy. No - there is no benefit listening to Putin. He has consistently lied about purposely distorted the truth. He has used everything from destroying nazi's to the claim that most of the Ukraine wants to be Russian to justify his actions. There is no real justification other than Russia is in a terrible situation economically and socially, and Putin cannot or will not solve it - but taking Ukraine will get some Russians off his back and it is a group of people for him to exploit - which is what he does. At some point there is no value in listening to a dictator - the same was the case in Italy, Germany and the USSR. Their motivations are very simple and base. It depends on whether you believe that the fall of Ukraine will have negative consequences for the USA. Also - a lot of the problems in the USA has to do with the distribution of wealth, which is something that neither party has successfully addressed. Is Trump the worst? No, there are always worse possibilities - Trump is the canary in the coal mine.
There will pretty much always be some level of "negative consequence" someone could point to. There will be economic/supply chain disruptions caused by a war of this scale between countries this large no matter what. The real question is whether the juice is worth the squeeze for the U.S. I don't really think so. I don't think 75% of the U.S. population could find Ukraine on a map. I don't think 50% would even know Russia took over Ukraine if it did happen.
Yes - and Russia has had a Nazi problem as well..... and that includes the founding of their very public corps. It is a red herring - because Putin knows that people who want to believe him will...... it is the same thing that Donald Trump has done. Throwing out a half baked idea with no perspective and letting people grab hold of it. Also - you will be hard pressed to find many nations that have had a greater disdain for Jews than Russia.
