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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    It's fascinating to accuse an American for having a unique opinion to be called anti-American. How un-american. Sounds more like a fascist view.
     
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  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Exactly.

    This is one problem with democracies that we are dependent on the support of the populace and election cycles. That is why it's dangerous to make major strategic decisions on short term elections.
     
  3. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Yeah, I think that if you want a murderous dictator to invade, rape, torture, and beat up a democracy, even though it's young and flawed, you are anti-American. I don't go there easily, but this is a case where I do go there.

    This is not referring to anyone in this forum, not even Commodore (as he's just passing on tweets). It's not even referring to Trump. It IS referring to Tucker Carlson and that MAGA fanatic who wanted Russia to completely take over Ukraine.
     
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  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Isolationism doesn't work, it always leads to the USA getting into a bigger war later.

    DD
     
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  5. LosPollosHermanos

    Supporting Member

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    And when it comes to intervening where will you be on the list of contributing to the cause and putting down the Krispy Kreme’s?

    It’s easy to have other people die for causes you don’t fully understand. You have no intention now or ever of practicing what you preach and you know it
     
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    All this talk of NATO admission ignores the fact that the applicant nation has to resolve all border disputes before even signing up. Putin invaded Georgia when they opened the discussion for NATO admission.

    EU membership/application is a more realistic goal and bargaining condition. It's also a way for them to decide how badly they want to restructure/reform their government and economies to align with the Eurozone as there's several endemic issues in Ukraine to resolve.

    I doubt Russia will agree to that 10+ year pathway (crimea-no-crimea) unless they suffer a public revolt against the war. That will happen only if Putin is forced to conscript folks from his base regions, the "blue eyed, blonde haired" folk as Condi Rice describes them.

    Nah, the Poles took in the most refugees and mostly welcomed them. This is under an anti-immigrant party running government.

    What drives support for the far right are refugees from Shithole Countries.
     
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  7. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    There's literally no universe that Russia is going to move into NATO. Please stop. RU can hardly beat 1990s 2nd hand military equipment we've donated to ukraine. Theyre not fighting NATO anytime this century
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    That was only for a short term. Things might be different if there is continued sustained influx. Even if the people arent' dark skinned it will still likely lead to a backlash. It will be similar to what we see with NY and our current migrant situation.
     
  9. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Indeed. We see fascism's flow in the results of Slovakia's very recent election. While the results and the impact of elections in very small Slovakia is unlikely to be news to you, I think there are several here who might find it surprising. Certainly well worth reading, in my opinion.

    CNN —
    A party headed by a pro-Kremlin figure came out top after securing more votes than expected in an election in Slovakia, official results show, in what could pose a challenge to NATO and EU unity on Ukraine.

    According to the final tallies released by Slovakia’s Statistical Office on Sunday, Robert Fico’s populist SMER party won 22.9% of the vote.

    Progressive Slovakia (PS), a liberal and pro-Ukrainian party won 18%.


    Fico, a two-time former prime minister, now has a chance to regain the job but must first seek coalition partners as his party did not secure a big enough share of the vote to govern on its own.

    Slovakia’s President Zuzana Čaputová formally asked him to form a government on Monday, according to Slovakian political custom where the leader of the biggest party gets the first chance at coalition talks.

    Speaking after his victory, Fico doubled down on his rhetoric, said he “will do everything” in his power to kickstart Russia-Ukraine peace talks.

    “More killing is not going to help anyone,” Fico said.

    Negotiations are unlikely to be welcomed in Ukraine, as for now they would likely involve proposals in which territory is ceded to Russia, which is a non-starter for Kyiv.

    The moderate-left Hlas party, led by a former SMER member and formed as an offshoot of SMER following internal disputes, came third with 14.7% of the vote, and could play kingmaker.

    With seven political parties reaching the 5% threshold needed to enter the parliament, coalition negotiations will almost certainly include multiple players and could be long and messy.

    Fico needs at least two other parties to gain a majority in the parliament. A coalition with Hlas and the far-right nationalist SNS appears most likely. Fico said Monday that Čaputová had given him 14 days to negotiate.

    While not a landslide, SMER’s result is better than expected – the final opinion polls published last week showed SMER and PS neck and neck.

    Fico has pledged an immediate end to Slovak military support for Ukraine and promised to block Ukraine’s NATO ambitions in what would upend Slovakia’s staunch backing for Ukraine.

    Michal Šimečka, the leader of PS, said the result was “bad news” for Slovakia.

    “The fact of the matter is that SMER is the winner. And we of course respect that although we think it’s bad news for the country. And it will be even worse news if Mr Fico forms the government,” he said at a news conference early on Sunday.

    Šimečka said his party will do “everything it could” to prevent Fico from governing.

    “I will be in touch with other political leaders of parties that were elected to parliament – on an informal basis – to discuss ways of preventing that,” he said. “We think it will be really bad news for the country, for our democracy, for our rule of law, and for our international standing and for our finances and for our economy if Mr Fico forms the government.”

    Peter Pellegrini, the leader of Hlas, said his party was “very pleased with the result.”

    “The results so far show that Hlas will be a party without which it will be impossible to form any kind of normal, functioning coalition government,” he said, adding that the party will “make the right decision” to become part of a government that will lead Slovakia out of the “decay and crisis that (the country’s previous leaders) got us into.”

    Hlas has been vague about its position on Ukraine in the election campaign. Pellegrini has previously suggested Slovakia “had nothing left to donate” to Kyiv, but also said that the country should continue to manufacture ammunition that is shipped to Ukraine.


    Slovakia, an eastern European nation of about 5.5 million people, was going to the polls to choose its fifth prime minister in four years after seeing a series of shaky coalition governments.

    A SMER-led government could have serious consequences for the region. Slovakia is a member of both NATO and the European Union, was among the handful of European countries pushing for tough EU sanctions against Russia and has donated a large amount of military equipment to Ukraine.

    But this will likely change under Fico, who has blamed “Ukrainian Nazis and fascists” for provoking Russia’s President Vladimir Putin into launching the invasion, repeating the false narrative Putin has used to justify his invasion.

    While in opposition, Fico became a close ally of Hungary’s Prime Minister Victor Orban, especially when it came to criticism of the EU. There is speculation that, if he returns to power, Fico and Orban could gang up together and create obstacles for Brussels.

    Orban has already congratulated Fico, saying on X, the platform previously known as Twitter: “Always good to work together with a patriot. Looking forward to it!”


    So much for the fantasy possessed here by some of Ukraine being "immediately made a NATO member" in order to insure it's security. My personal opinion is that Putin's propaganda machine has had particular success in Slovakia. If anyone wants "proof," one only has to look at the results of the survey below:

    According to a survey by GlobSec, a Bratislava-based security think tank, only 40% of Slovaks believed Russia was responsible for the war in Ukraine, the lowest proportion among the eight central and eastern European and Baltic states GlobSec focused on. In the Czech Republic, which used to form one country with Slovakia, 71% of people blame Russia for the war.

    The same research found that 50% of Slovaks perceive the United States – the country’s long-term ally – as a security threat.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/01/worl...ro-russia-robert-fico-win-intl-hnk/index.html
     
  10. cdastros

    cdastros Member

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  11. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Perhaps that's true in your personal universe. Sticking to this known universe, crystal balls aren't real.

    ps. You might want to use a different word than "no universe". Your usage doesn't gel with the multiverse theory, where every possible scenario unfolds.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    You are such a turd of a human being, you make snap judgments without knowing a thing about the other person.

    Tell you what, I will make sure you get drafted first so you can get over there and serve your country, give you something to do and you can see the rest of the world for what it truly is......in the meantime....you might want to start making your way to Canada....with Glynch.

    DD
     
  13. LosPollosHermanos

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    I’m going to burst your bubble, but video game authority doesn’t translate to the real world.

    man..a couple of nerds greeting you over the release of your game has really gotten to your head. No wonder you double down on your imbecile takes.
     
  14. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    I think that Putin recognizes that the Russian military is losing blood and money on the battlefield ... but ... the Ukraine victories are coming at a very high cost for the Ukrainians due to their limited resources. Putin is hoping that Ukraine's Pyrrhic victories will bring Ukraine to the negotiation table begging for peace.

    FWIW Putin and Russia have zero interest in peace with Ukraine. Putin's word and signature on a peace agreement are worthless. Putin will see a cessation of fighting in Ukraine as an opportunity to resupply Russia's military equipment. 5 to 10 years later, Russia will be ready to fight again, waiting for when he thinks NATO is in disarray.

    I think that the best outcome for this war will be if Russia begs for peace. Conditions for peace have
    • to have NATO guaranteeing peace with NATO bases in Ukraine eventually
    • to have Russia make reparations and join in the NATO/EU Ukrainian rebuild
    • to have Ukraine join the EU in 5 years
    • to have Ukraine join NATO in 10 years

    We are at least one full year away from Russia wanting this peace.
     
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  15. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    It doesn't look like Poland is giving up their Patriot Missile Defense for the Iron Dome.
     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Yes at this moment Putin can’t be trusted and has little interest in peace. That is why compelling Ukraine to the peace table by withholding aid isn’t likely to work but instead lead to Russia launching an offensive.

    This is a situation where it has to be unequivocally proven to Russia they won’t meet their battlefield goals. That while Ukraine is bleeding Russia is bleeding more. It’s then they peace will be practical for both sides.
     
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  17. Invisible Fan

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    It's easy to ask for a laundry list of goodies, but what would Russia get enough in return for them to sell themselves as winners?
     
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  18. basso

    basso Member
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  19. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum

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  20. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    russia has plenty of meat to throw at this war. Ill equipped and trained albeit, but they will rely on pure volume of body count trade off and that’s perfectly acceptable for their leadership. It’s the long game they hope to win
     
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