I mean we're giving saudis security assurances and their ran by a dictator who's hanging innocent people. I don't see why we can't do same with Ukraine
The dumbassery of this post is staggering. College should be free, it is good for any society to have an educated populace, but the GOP likes to keep em uneducated because it is easier to manipulate those that can't think for themselves - and get told to not drink Bud light for an example.....just a bunch of followers unable to understand they are being bent over and screwed by the very people they put in office. They literally vote against their own benefit and are too ignorant to realize that. Just to be clear here is some of the most important stuff the left has given this country. 1. Weekends off 2. Paid Vacation 3. FMLA 4. Paid sick leave 5. Child Labor laws 6. Social Security 7. Minimum wage (needs to be raised) 8. Eight hour work day 9. Overtime Pay 10. Health and safety OSHA 11. Health care 12. Dental 13. Vision 14. Collective bargaining 15. Breaks 16. Wrongful termination rights 17. Age discrimintation rights 18. raises 19. Sexual Harrassment laws 20. American Disability act (Obamacare) 21. Holiday pay 22. Military Leave 23. Equal pay act 24. Civil rights 25. Workers comp 26. Pregnancy and Parental Leave 27. Privacey Rights 28. Public Education for children 29. Laws ending sweatshops in the USA 30. Veteran Employment and training services (VETS) 31. Pensions It goes on and on and on - the liberals have built this country and had to fight the greedy conservatives to get a fair wage, fair pay, and fair hours - there is no TRICKLE DOWN - that is made up hogwash. All the right is good at is making slogans up like - WOKE- which really means you care about society as a whole - and believe in a rising tide lifting all boats philosophy. I am not sure why people vote against their own interests, and we keep on knocking down healthcare for all when every other civilized country in the world has it, and it is MUCH CHEAPER than private insurance we are paying now......Literally we would pay LESS with a national healthcare program. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-c...-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ The people that follow the RIGHT aren't stupid, they aren't dumb, they are just susceptible to propaganda and take things read to them over a teleprompter as fact instead of researching themselves and don't confront them with facts, they can't stand it and will just dig in. The majority of this country is just going to have to drag the minority forward kicking and screaming all the way......too bad they can't travel to like the Netherlands or Norway or Sweden and see how much better they have it on a day to day basis. Life is hard, why let the GOP/RICH CATS make it harder? DD
I think the only answer here, if the $$$ is waning in congress is to get the Ukraine and Russia to the table..... Give Russia Crimea - and a small land bridge to it Give Ukraine back most of the area taken Instant membership for the Ukraine in NATO Russia recognizes the Ukraine That is probably how this will end. DD
Yes I think part of any truce should be American security agreement to Ukraine that passes the senate or some other sort of arrangement. I'm not sure what options the state Department can think of but we need to give them real assurances.
We shouldn't do this. Why should Americans solely have American security assurance for Ukraine when it directly challenges Europe more than us? If we are to do this, we might as well push for them to be in NATO and have shared assurance. I don't think the executive can provide any security assurance to Ukraine. Even if it can, it wouldn't be long term, as it's subjective to the "next" executive. Congressional action is likely required and probably in the form of some treaty.
I doubt Putin would budge on NATO unless he's severely defeated. But even then, NATO doesn't want a direct conflict with Russia. I'm just guessing that Ukraine will have to stand on its own at some point. They are going to have to manufacture their own equipment and maintain their border while waiting for Putin to go away. Maybe then there is potential for a lasting peace agreement between the two countries.
At first, I was 100% against Crimea being a negotiating tool, but the longer this drags out it might be time for Ukraine to at least think about giving it up completely, if this is going to end then putin has to save face or this will go one forever and Ukraine (to their credit will not back down) is being drained financially and their men and woman are being killed and the infrastructure will take decades to rebuild. It's easy for me to say it as I don't have any skin in the game, but if we could direct our $$$ into rebuilding a bigger and better Ukraine and immediately get them into NATO then maybe that would at least make both sides pause and see how this can be worked out.
It's not just Russia. the PRC could use this same strategy with Taiwan, the South China Sea and other areas they have territorial disputes with. India, or Pakistan, could use the same strategy with Kashmir. Russia could use the same strategy with disputed territory they have with Japan and so on. Even without nukes your argument amounts to that democracies won't put up with short term economic pain and are willing to make territorial concessions over it. And also for the guy who goes on and on about the World ending if Republicans rae back in power I'm not sure you should be talking about fear mondering.
In this political climate it's far from guaranteed that a security assurance could be passed through Congress. Several NATO countries have said now isn't the time to admit Ukraine to NATO and it only takes one to veto it. Also one of the primary reasons stated by Russia for invading Ukraine was that Ukraine might join NATO. So now Putin would just accept that?
That very well could be the case but at the moment neither Ukraine nor Russia appear interested in that sort of deal. Us pulling aid from Ukraine makes such a deal less likely as it likely will embolden Russia to press an offensive. As frustrating as it is it is likely going to to take them fighting it out some more until either side realizes they can't get their goals on the battlefield.
Biden has said he will defend taiwan with us troops so its completely different story. India is not going to fight Pakistan over kashmir as PK has nukes as aell. Your China comparsion makes no sense as biden nd state Department have made Taiwan an essential country. Ukraine wasn't Essential... Again I keep you but what's your plan for the war? Theres currently a stalemate and no side is doing anything. The stalemate is bringing massive suffering to Europe which is leading to neo nazis coming into power. What's your plan? @glynch I wish bernie bros would talk about Ukraine in the right manner
Ukraine occupies some key strategic location. It's also very strategic for food and energy as you yourself as stated. It also greatly affects the rest of Europe. It's pretty important. As stated though it's not just Taiwan. The PRC has several territorial disputes with it's neighbors including US allies. It has big disputes with the Philippines over the South China Sea. Any conflict in the South China sea will have a negative affect on the global economy because of trade routes through there. Should the US then just decide not to help the Philippines because of economic pain? I've stated it on this very page. At this point neither side is interested in peace and us simply giving up on the Ukraine doesn't lead to peace but likely a Russian offensive. It's frustrating but both sides have to come to their own realization that they can't accomplish their goals on the battlefiled. At the moment stalemate is what will likely lead to a negotiation. One of the problems is that we have short attention spans and lack of historical perspective. Many wars don't end quickly and in a conflict like this peace imposed externally isn't going hold. Especially if the external force isn't willing to commit troops to it. Your idea of security guarantees would mean the US would be willing to defend Ukraine and that means US troops. That is even more unlikely given we just got out of a 20 plus year deployment. What we can do is keep Ukraine in the fight long enough that they inflict enough damage to Russia to convince the Russians they can't succeed on the battlefield. At that point you'll a serious move towards peace.
Wild to see some Conservatives bending over to a Russian dictator as he attempts to take over neighboring democracies.
Also - fascism, and the ebb and flow of support for far-right wing politicians and political parties is nothing new......and not at all surprising in Europe.
Yep. And, really, Americans and the West are too impatient. This war was never likely to be settled in 2 years. 3 years would be great, but I think it's more likely to take 5 years before we see any real progress (by 'progress,' I mean both sides being so exhausted that they are willing to negotiate a truce). As long as Ukraine remains an independent nation, I believe we can consider it a victory for American, European, and NATO interests. Achieving this goal shouldn't be too difficult if the West stays united and provides funding and support to Ukraine. The alternative is Russia taking over the country. If that happens, we'll probably support guerrilla warfare to prevent Russia from moving into NATO territory. I think that's a much riskier picture for America than Ukraine 'winning.' Those giving up on Ukraine at this point (which is still a small percentage of the US public according to polls) should exercise more patience. Those Americans who wish for Russia to win outright should be criticized as anti-American.
Yes we were seeing a rise of it before Russia invaded Ukraine. BREXIT was a huge boon to the far right and that was well before the invasion. I can agree though that issues like inflation are helping the far right. Even if the war were to stop tomorrow it's unlikely that inflation drops all of sudden becasue there are many structural issues going on now. Another issue that is driving the far right is migration and refugees. At the beginning of the war there was a massive flow of refugees from Ukraine. That has largely stopped and many refugees have returned to Ukraine because the threat of Russia occupying most of the country has greatly diminished. If Ukraine were to suddenly not be able to defend itself we could very well see another massive refugee problem. That could also drive support for the far right in Europe.
