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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Folks like @Os Trigonum will correctly point out that saying Putin is pretty smart is not an endorsement of Putin but potentially an evaluation & appreciation of his maneuvering.

    But what the endorsement of Putin by Trump is not condemning him strongly, rationalizing his behavior, and coddling up to him over the course of being an American president, not to mention how awfully tone deaf and bewildering it is to call a man who is happy to order the murders of specific individuals anything but evil.

    sociopaths are often very smart, you don't see people praising them as a genius for their crimes and defending their actions. Showing an appreciation for someone like Putin is actually pretty scary, as it shows that Trump wants to be like him.
     
  2. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I understand this actually won’t do anything given his assets aren’t really under his name and he’s not leaving Russia anytime soon, but I think from a procedural standpoint this is a step in the right direction to label him a war criminal.
     
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  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    The thing about Sociopaths is that they can be very smart but turn very dumb once they get to a point of not having any ability to hear they are wrong from anyone else. Look at Hitlers tactical strategies in 1939 vs 1944. What makes someone smart is the intellectual process of pressure testing ideas and strategy.

    I’m more than comfortable at this point to say that Putin is even strategically no genius at all because of this core fact alone. Engaging in the largest most intense insurgency since 1939 on the second largest country in Europe indirectly supported by 2/3 of the world when you are the only one making any sort of strategic decisions…. Yeah that’s dumb…. Not genius.
     
  4. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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  5. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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  6. Astrodome

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    Shout out to Obama for avoiding this crisis during his terms.
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Yeah — he’s going well beyond saying he is “smart”. He’s essentially justifying Putin’s attack, by portraying it as strategically genius without any sort of condemnation. He obviously admires him greatly. This is consistent with his words during his presidency. Putin is the type of political leader Trump wished he could be.
     
  8. CrazyJoeDavola

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  9. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Putin plays back any praise of him from significant figures of the west as propaganda to his people. This is why especially during a war, people need to be careful about what they say and how they say it so they don't become 'a useful idiot'.
     
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  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I would like to see CIA and other COINTEL groups go after his financing. They need to take a page from investigation and prosecutions of international money launderers
     
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  11. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    This is what a true patriot looks like.
     
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    We know they’ve been playing Tucker Carlson.

    As I said earlier I am uneasy though with calling anyone who criticizes efforts to oppose Putin or even praises him as “traitors”. One of our strengths is the ability speak out and question our leaders especially regarding something that could lead to war.

    What I will keep pointing out though that many on the Right were quick to call those who opposed the invasion and occupation of Iraq “traitors” and accused them of undermining the US. Fox News was one of those institutions that spread such rhetoric.
     
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  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    The Ukraine issue should be handled by NATO, not the US. I get the semantics.

    What Biden should be doing is focusing on the economy and dealing with the supply chain issues. If we can bail out the auto industry, we can at least lend assistance to areas that could assist with many of the log jams.
     
  14. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    I agree with you and this tweet.
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    It is being handled by NATO. Action on sanctions and other steps is going through NATO.

    This is a major crisis. The President for the US can’t just ignore it. Also given the economic impact of this Biden can’t solve supply chain issues without this being also handled.
     
  16. Gioan Baotixita

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    I prayed all night for his safety as well as his brother’s being their biggest fan. This is the epitome of guts, blood and balls, but knowing the Klitschko brothers all these years, I expect nothing less from them. The courage of the Ukrainian people is a shining example for freedom loving people everywhere.

    I salute the 13 Ukrainian border guards on Snake Island right before they died, they told the Russian warships to go fukk themselves.
     
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  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    How are NATO governments and Ukraine’s government out of control?
     
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  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    The are engaging in war without anything remotely resembling diplomacy.
     
  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Well why do you think Biden's sanction so far have been less than what is expected. Why is the stock market rebounding? He clearly is conscious of the economy.

    There's not much he can do about global supply chain issues. He can't tell foreign companies to do x,y,z to solve chip shortages. He's launched an initiative to make the US less dependent on chips from China. I just don't get what specific action people want from him.

    He's not an amazing president for sure, but he's not the incompetent vegetable the right try to makes him. He's a skilled and intelligent politician who takes the middle road more often than not. It seems this would be the president Republicans would like - steady and often says what he thinks to his own detriment, isn't lock in step with the far left elements of his party, and has a good rep with both sides of the aisle.

    Joe Biden isn't the president the American left wanted, he's the president that the middle of the country wanted. Why do conservatives fail to see that?
     
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    What economic interest is there in this war for the US?

    This war has hit the markets badly and added to inflation woes at a time when inflation was already high. While we don’t drowned much in Russia or Ukraine our Allie’s and trading partners in Europe do. This is going to hurt their economies badly and given we trade with them ours will be negatively affected too.

    Also as far as drumbeat for war it was Russia’s military that built up along Ukraine’s border and did invade Ukraine. The reporting on this and intel put out by the US government was accurate.
     

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