You are literally one of the only people in this thread that gets it. The issue isnt Putin or Trump but its zelensky and internal politics at home. UKR defense minister has already said that RU is more than happy to sign a ceasefire or sign a peace deal. Theyre crumbling and begging north Korea for weapons. The issue is UKR domestic politics. Their propaganda is just as bad as MAGA fox news propaganda at home. 87% of Ukrainians think they will retake crimea by 25 when thats literally delusional with the current pace. Im not sure if you're paying attention but Zelensky is on tv in UKR bashing biden for not providing long range missles and their already second guessing western help. Nothing biden does will ever please Zelensky until biden declares war on behalf of UKR. The pro ukraine crowd who are republicans like @basso will NEVER NEVER NEVER vote for biden over Trump because of Ukraine. These folks care more about white supremacy than they do about ukraine. Biden will lose 1000x more voters to high gas prices than he will gain by keeping this war going on. Biden has to step up and put his foot down and tell UKR they have until this winter to complete their offensive and then its ceasefire time. If biden doesnt push it then nothing will happen. Zelesnky has no idea how america politics works. This was the same person who thought American would declare war on RU over ukraine and fight WW3. Zelensky is way over his head and the only people who dont see it are the those blinded by the war.
There is likely all sorts of blowback. Outside of Europe and S. Korea, Japan and Taiwan virtually everyone else is still trading with Russia so the sanctions have largely failed. If our proxy forces in Ukraine lose it also is not good for us. Europe and Germany will probably be not so happy as their economies suffer while we remain pretty much untouched behind our two large oceans.
You think the Vietnamese War was worth it?? It was largely a civil war which accomplished little, but a couple of million Vietnamese were killed and the chaos led pretty much to Pol Pot. I must say my wife and I had a nice few days in Hanoi when we visited what was once called North Vietnam about 5 years ago. On another thread I mentioned having a heated discussion with a Vietnamese refugee who was upset I have a Bernie bumpersticker on my car and he called Bernie a communist. About the only thing we could agree on was that a couple of million dead Vietnamese was not worth it.
I agree domestic politics in the US and Ukraine is more important than the so called fight for democracy or say "Truth Justice and the American Way" as used to be said. I do not take as face value claims of Ukraine, Russian or US claims with regard to how the war is going. Going back as far as Vietnam all of our wars have seen US policies dictated immorally by the timing of elections as home. Nixon famously started back pedaling frantically when he saw the N. Vietnamese started conceding all points in peace negotiations so he could not be accused of losing Vietnam. Biden will probably leave Ukraine largely to its own resources if he thinks it might decrease his 2024 chances. Sadly Ukraine after a couple of hundred thousand deaths and losing millions of citizens as refugees will likely end up losing more territory than it has had the chance to negotiate a couple of times before.
Agreed Ukraine did not attack Russia. Insisting on joining NATO an anti-Russian military alliance which has recent history of attacking Serbia and Libya (however much you supported these actions) is not a move toward neutrality like Austria, Sweden Finland Switzerland exercised.
Germany acquired more territory via Brest-Litovsk than they did via Barbarossa and subsequent offensives.
Again, I just want to be sure I'm clear on this. When the U.S. invaded Vietnam you don't think they should have resisted militarily?
I am not sure why you keep going down the barren path that Ukraine has no right to defend themselves.
And Russia/Soviet Union has a history of invading its neighbors which prompted the creation of NATO. Your cause and effect is backwards.
How is shutting down those nuclear plants working for Europe? Sounds like they should stop listening to a lot of people. Areas with abundant marketable energy thrive and those that don't die.
Actually you could have cause and effect backwards. The Soviet Union disbanded and Russia wanted to become more and more a part of Europe. The US rejected this. Russia has not invaded its neighbors except when the US i.e NATO broke its promises and kept moving NATO up to the Russian border. I guess you could argue that Ukraine has an inalienable right to join an anti-Russia alliance, no matter how reckless it was to do so. Just like Mexico could arguably recklessly decide it has the right to join an anti-American Chinese alliance and placeChinese nukes in Matamoros. In international relations even the US have to sometimes compromise on whether to emphasize domination or peace.
No, but Libya as well as Serbia show that NATO acts at times like an aggressor and is not just a nice peaceful defense alliance
