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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Russia tech is bunk
     
  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I don't blame Latvia and other former Warsaw Pact, now NATO members doing this. Seems like the most peaceful idea with troubled origins. I mean, they could just be like the Russians and "solve a problem"

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russians-take-language-test-avoid-expulsion-latvia-2023-05-08/
    Russian citizens take language test to avoid expulsion from Latvia
     
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  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    They should be training for the F16 on Flight simulators now.

    DD
     
  4. basso

    basso Member
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  5. basso

    basso Member
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  6. basso

    basso Member
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    trial balloon float:

     
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  7. basso

    basso Member
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  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Interesting perspective via the Times Radio from a retired British general:

     
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  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    This situation is widespread throughout the former Soviet Union as many ethnic Russians were settled in other republics during the USSR.

    Soviets like the US and the PRC now did repress local ethnicities and cultures in favor of Russian / Soviet culture and language.

    It’s understandable given the current situation that the Baltic and other former Soviet Republics are distrustful of the ethnic Russians but as the article notes many of these people are elderly and have lived there for decades. It would be a cruel irony to now force them out.
     
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  10. Buck Turgidson

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    Good read. The maintenance side was really never the issue (to me at least) though, at least not one I brought up.

    It was the functionality of older fighters vs whatever modern SAM systems Russia has
     
    #12530 Buck Turgidson, May 26, 2023
    Last edited: May 26, 2023
  11. Invisible Fan

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    The soviets deported all the troublemakers to other regions of the USSR while transplanted their own "colonists", as they did to all their subjugated territories. The privilege the Russian elderly have there is apparent even with guarded words.

    This would've been mostly solved in Latvia if they took Latvian passports, so the concern "I think that learning Latvian is right, but this pressure is wrong," is mostly of their own doing.

    ETA: None of these countries are doing this by their own goodwill. They can't bully the carpetbaggers because it could serve as pretext for Putin to spin up some grounds for invasion.
     
    #12531 Invisible Fan, May 26, 2023
    Last edited: May 26, 2023
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  12. basso

    basso Member
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    I suspect the Ukrainian's are aware of the maintenance issue, and have a plan. it would also not surprise me if they have already been training on F16s for a while, both pilots and ground crews.
     
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  13. Buck Turgidson

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    Yeah, the Soviets were real big on killing and displacing people, so there would be no cohesive local ability to resist their rule. They looooved to send anti-nazi partisans (who you would think would be their friends and all) straight to the gulag or just executed outright.

    My ex's grandfather was pretty serious in the Polish Resistance, and he remarried after the war and never told anyone in his new family, for 50 years, what he did (because they would just haul you away)...communism broke up he was able to get medals from the Polish govt and a few years later was buried with full military honors. He spoke more english than I did Polish at that time, and talking to him about his "treasures" (he had a box of photos and memorabilia buried in the forest, that the went back with a relative and somehow found) is something I'll never forget.
     
    #12533 Buck Turgidson, May 26, 2023
    Last edited: May 26, 2023
  14. Buck Turgidson

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  15. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    RUMOR -

    Lukashenko fell ill and is in critical condition. Probably not true, but there it is:



    The self-proclaimed president of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko, is in a critical condition — ANSA.

    The Italian publication refers to a tweet by Belarusian oppositionist Valery Tsepkal, a former ambassador to the United States and a candidate for the country's presidency.

    "According to preliminary information, which requires confirmation, Lukashenka was rushed to the Central Clinical Hospital of Moscow after a closed-door meeting with Putin.

    Currently, he remains under medical supervision.

    Leading specialists were involved in the treatment of his critical condition. Blood purification procedures were carried out, Lukashenka's condition was recognized as non-transportable. The organized efforts to save the Belarusian dictator were aimed at dispelling speculations about the Kremlin's alleged involvement in his poisoning," Tsepkala said.
     
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  16. basso

    basso Member
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  17. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    I don't think alot of people here realize that giving ukraine f16 guarantees the war will go into the 2024 election. By the time they get trained and delievered it will be fall. Russia isnt going accept any ceasefire in 2024 when they can have whatever if trump wins in 24. This is not good news as Putin and OPEC can hold biden hostage on gas prices during election season. I just don't think people are thinking this through at all.
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    So by extending the war you mean giving Ukraine more of a chance? If that's not what you mean what is the scenario without giving them the jets?
     
  19. Major

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    How do you think the war ends earlier if we don't give Ukraine the F16s?
     
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Even if the US doesn’t give Ukraine F16’s the war isn’t going to end earlier. In February of 2022 when Ukraine had less weapons many experts expected Russia to conquer Ukraine in a month. While things will go badly for Ukraine if the US doesn’t arm them it’s unlikely that Russia will be able to quickly take Ukraine for force a quick decisive surrender.

    Also it’s unlikely that will address inflation fears. Even if peace was declared Ukraine’s infrastructure had been badly damaged so its not Ukrainian grain suddenly flows back on the market reducing food inflation. Europe has already been transitioning from Russian energy and the fear of a resurgent Russia might not encourage them lift sanctions on Russia.

    Finally the argument that support for Ukraine is hurting Biden’s chances of re-election has to be considered with if Biden suddenly decides to not support Ukraine. A lot of Rightwing rhetoric is already pushing the idea that Biden is weak. For now at least most Americans support continued aid to Ukraine. The strongest group that doesn’t are MAGA like MGt who won’t vote for Biden anyway. If Biden stops supporting he will likely fare much worse as he will get tarred from the Right as being weak on the international stage and by even many Democrats for abandoning European allies and allowing a democracy to fall to an authoritarian.
     

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