this one's thread-appropriate: HOW SHOULD THE U.S. RESPOND TO A RUSSIAN ATTACK ON UKRAINE? https://www.powerlineblog.com/archi...-s-respond-to-a-russian-attack-on-ukraine.php excerpt for folks who only get their opinions from approved lefty sources: Therefore, we should make it clear to Putin, if we haven’t already, that we will support Ukrainian resistance to Russia. And we should make good on that threat if there is an invasion/occupation. Some might argue that this response isn’t warranted because Ukraine’s fate has no bearing on U.S. interests. I consider this argument frivolous in the context of a debate over whether to provide the kind of assistance described above. It’s clear to me that America has enough of a stake in opposing Russia to justify providing aid, as opposed to troops, to support Ukraine. Nonetheless, before the U.S. comes to Ukraine’s aid against a Russian attack, that U.S. interest will have to be spelled out, not just asserted. more at the link
I doubt Russia has serious interest in occupying Ukraine as an objective to its military operation. More likely, the goal will be to crush the political, military, and economic infrastructure so that Ukraine will become a chaotic and failed state wrapped up in constant civil war that Russia can play outside influencer once it withdraws. That way Russia can keep Ukraine in check, prevent NATO incursion, and exploit Ukraine for its reserves as well as create a criminal underworld that excerpts real power in the country. Pretty much what the US can do is severe sanctions, and move to put western forces in any other country Russia might be targeting as a response to this. But Russia will get their objectives here.
It would be in Russia's longterm interest too to keep Ukraine neutral as a buffer. Putin doesn't see things that way and is too invested in the idea of a return to great power status.
I think the Marshall Plan and the rebuilding of Japan has paid of very well for the US. While we never were paid directly back the new economies of the Western Europe and East Asia and been very successful trading partners that has generated a lot of for us and them. The primary difference between Germany and Japan and Afghanistan and Iraq is that the former countries were among the most advanced countries in the World at the start of the war. While their industrial base was destroyed in the war they still had a lot of human infrastructure including engineers and people who had experience running a government. Their populations were also fairly homogenous and well educated for the time. We don't have any of those in Irag and Afghanistan. Iraq was a petro state run by a brutal dictator who had purged many of the most capable in the government before the US invaded. On top of that the US themselves didn't take some of the most capable people still there under the DeBaathication policy. Also there was along simmering sectarian conflict that broke out once Saddam was removed. Afghanistan was even worse off than Iraq.
Families of U.S. Embassy personnel must evacuate Ukraine, State Department orders https://theweek.com/ukraine/1009280...lies-of-embassy-personnel-to-evacuate-ukraine
So we need to waste trillions on Cold War II ? Or encourage Ukraine like somehow we will actually go to war with Russia? How will this help the average Ukraine. No mention of our involvement in ousting the Russian friendly Ukraine government during the Obama Adminisatration.
How? I think you are giving Obama Admin too much credit. Ukraine revolution was internal to Ukraine citizen. It started when Yanukovych refused to sign the EU association agreement, an abrupt change that started civil demonstrations by students. The US involvement were simply symbolic, making statements of support for citizens of Ukraine. John McCain went a bit further pushing Ukraine toward Europe (as he usually does in these conflicts). This conflict is all Russian cause with their aggression. Please stop with explaining why they are doing this and how this is caused by others. No one knows what Putin wants. And try to remember that he is a de-facto dictator that does not answer to his own people. I very much doubt that Ukraine wants to be absorbed back under that type of government. Their independence is at stake and while no one wants to go to war, yes, I think we should try to support their independence. The US and Europe would do everything they can, even military but to a limited extent to support Ukraine. But it is also Ukraine's choice here on asking for help and their people have to live with that. If you are Ukrainian, what would you want the US, Germany, and other European countries to do? Walk away?
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk...nstall-pro-russian-leader-ukraine-2022-01-22/ LONDON, Jan 22 (Reuters) - Britain on Saturday accused the Kremlin of seeking to install a pro-Russian leader in Ukraine, and said Russian intelligence officers had been in contact with a number of former Ukrainian politicians as part of plans for an invasion. ...
So they say about Putin and this might be right. Meanwhile the US does not want Ukraine to be neutral and is obsessed with any thing that might threaten its great power status. Meanwhile the average Russian, Ukraine and American suffer from the resources wasted on denying neutrality. Hey, all this makes for good TV, attracts eyeballs and provides a good change for the typical "crime, weather and sports" of typical "news"
You really a special type of idiot if you really think Biden wants to go to war with Russia or if you think anyone believes starting WW3 would boost an American president’s approval rating. This is the dumbest of dumb takes. Yes 9/11 and Iraq initially helped W. Clinton had a brief moment during the Monica scandal, and Trump did his theatre moment bombing the Syrian airport which was operational the next day. But Russia is different in every way. And Biden is not ordering Putin to invade Ukraine right now… Putin is the one invading.
Yup, but the problem is that what's in Russia's longterm interest is not what's in Putin's short term interest.
If Trump was still president is there one person here who thinks he wouldn’t be saying exactly the same thing as Tucker Carlson right now which is essentially a heartfelt sympathy for Russia’s reasoning for invading Ukraine?? Who here really thinks he’d be loading up Easy company ready to invade??
I'm not sure whether these hypos are fruitful in any way other than a form of mental/emotional trench digging. Heck, I still don't know why Putin is doing it now. Now that Trump is gone. Trump is gone, for now...we can always ponder "well if he really was Putin's b****, Putie should've dun did it sooner!!" But we don't even know the whole ******* situation. Everyone is just spitballing as if the situation is set. That's great. I wish Gore won, 9/11 averted, and will counterfactualize (not fantasize, mind you) tens of trillions of dollars in gdp gains per year but reality still means I have to resolve things in ways I generally don't like to do.
Putin waiting for Trump to be out of office before he did this because he didn't want to create a crisis with his puppet.
It’s a little bit fruitful and important context. Yes of course Biden has to be judged based on what he responds with whatever crisis he inherits. That’s correct. However what we do know though is that Putin only chooses to shed blood in a full out war if he feels extreme desperation. Meaning disinformation on selling Eastern Europe that Democracy sucks is seen as failing. So Biden winning in 20 and our NATO alliances strengthening after was always going to make it actually more likely he gets desperate and invades. Had Trump won via coup and especially if LePen was in charge in France, taking over Ukraine by force might not be necessary because Ukraine might have fallen by choice. Imagine if during Trumps impeachment episode it was revealed that Zelensky went along with Trump and he himself was just as corrupt as everyone else? That would have mattered a lot in the grand scheme of softening democracy in Ukraine to accept what comes next. The case Trumpers make to me is something along the lines of Trump is better because he is corrupt and can make deals for peace behind closed doors that Biden could never do, and therefore we are safer as a country. Boy… if that’s where we are now then we really have no hope. Bidens pathway to peace is harder in the short term because he doesn’t have corruption on the plate to offer, but in the long run I just wish everyone would stop to realize we should still choose the harder path that means a much higher likelihood of freedoms long term. Even with fascism rising in the world, and the best propaganda at the time Hitler still decided to choose violence and murder because he could. There’s no guarantee that if Putin had weakened NATO and global democracies that he wouldn’t still eventually murder a ton of people. It’s important that Putin is judged for Putin’s actions and Biden alone isn’t judged for the actions of Putin, Kim Jung, Xi, etc. Did FDR’s approval rating plummet because Hitler invaded Poland? With today’s media and punditry I can only imagine. If Putin is desperate enough to throw the Hail Mary pass then maybe it’s because Biden and others are actually doing a better job than we give them credit for.
Maybe something about this. What Ukraine wants is what Putin fears. And of course, the aggression from Putin probably drove that even higher now.
