1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,959
    Likes Received:
    111,154
    Santa Claus coming down the chimney would be a minor incursion
     
    ThatBoyNick likes this.
  2. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    28,468
    Likes Received:
    43,686
    [​IMG]
     
    Nook likes this.
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,959
    Likes Received:
    111,154
    Father Frost needs a Rockets Red Santa hat
     
  4. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    28,468
    Likes Received:
    43,686
    [​IMG]

    Can't believe they had a cleaner logo that more closely resembles our champ years than what we have

    [​IMG]

    Thanks, Rockets.
     
    tinman likes this.
  5. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    17,792
    Likes Received:
    3,395
    Ukraine is now used primarily by the US presidents to show that they are strong and signal to the military industrial complex guys that they will not threaten their profits. While Putin also loves Ukraine for political purposes it is also understandable that he would be threatened by having nukes and a heavily armed Ukraine on its borders. American exceptionalismo of course, but I could understand that American would have some real fear if we had Russian nukes on the Mexican border and Mexico was in an anti-American alliance with say Russia and China while massively arming the Mexicans.

    But relax, no need to start buying yellow ribbons or think about signing up to keep the Russkies from landing on the beaches. Ten to one the Ukraine story will fade once its political usefulness is unnecessary. Hey we never even hear about our dear friends the Kuwaitis whose cause was what starting the whole mess leading to Iraq War I and II, ISIS and Syria etc.
     
  6. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,963
    Likes Received:
    18,710
    who?
     
  7. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,963
    Likes Received:
    18,710
    You can be a pacifist without being a propagandist for the Russian.
     
    Deckard likes this.
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,400
    Likes Received:
    25,405
    Americans love war and feigning remorse over its causalities. Football, the proxy for brutal wars isn't going away despite making vegetables out of beef cakes. That's the only impossible burger rednecks will consume on a weekly basis

    I think I have to accept that because it's undeniable and repeats itself every other god damn year.

    How about we only fight wars that pay for itself? None of this only haliburton gets rich while Israel and Saudi goads us into another round of faux stimulus that hides the stink of crippling debt.

    Something like as reward for white knighting Ukraine, she gives us a go in bed for a month and enough oil reserves to make pillow talk pleasant?

    Disgusting disgusting...I know. We're all pure freedom minded souls...
     
    ThatBoyNick likes this.
  9. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    21,016
    Likes Received:
    12,882
    Realpolitik…

    America is surrounded by two large oceans while Ukraine is near a bunch of Russians and Turks (Ottomans). I can empathize with Ukraine but their sovereignty should depend more on countries in Europe, particularly Germany. What’s the point of making concessions or sending troops if Europe is going to be too dependent on Russian energy? What’s to stop Putin from playing this trick again if the EU isn’t strong?

    Ukraine is in the EU and not NATO.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    21,016
    Likes Received:
    12,882
    And Biden isn’t committing direct military intervention.

    TC has been pretty soft on Russia since 2016….
     
  11. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    98,149
    Likes Received:
    40,759
  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,264
    Likes Received:
    42,279
    There are no nukes, except possibly left over Soviet ones, in Ukraine and there is no serious proposals to place nukes in Ukraine. At the moment most NATO countries including the US are not pushing for Ukraine's admission to NATO.
    Kuwait is not under threat of imminent invasion.

    Why the situation with Ukraine matters is that it is a country that most of the people there have no interest in being back to a federation with Russia while Russia has already taken Ukrainian territory and for the last few years has been supporting a separatist conflict in part of the country. That alone should be enough justification for concern about Ukraine but given Ukraine's location and other issues with neighboring states like Belarus are major concerns to the security of the rest of Europe. Leaving aside ideology a return to Russian dominance of Eastern Europe will spark more of a build up of militaries within the EU and given the NATO will lead to more US military involvement back in Europe. It is actually in the longterm interest to keep Ukraine as an independent country that isn't part of NATO or an new Warsaw Pact. A stable independent Ukraine will mean the US won't need to be as involved in the region.
     
    Andre0087 likes this.
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,717
    Likes Received:
    18,918
    The ideal outcome would be for Ukraine to declare itself a neutral state and agree to never take sides in any conflict or allow foreign troops on its side from either side in return for a guarantee from Russia never to invade, engage in covert operations, or amass troops on its borders all monitored by the UN
     
    rocketsjudoka likes this.
  14. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    21,016
    Likes Received:
    12,882
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,959
    Likes Received:
    111,154
    you'll like this one

    ON BIDEN’S BITTER BLUSTER

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/01/on-bidens-bitter-bluster.php
     
  16. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,963
    Likes Received:
    18,710
    lol, jeez man

    Power Line - Media Bias/Fact Check (mediabiasfactcheck.com)
    • Overall, we rate Power Line strongly right biased based on story selection that always favors the right. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the use of poor sources that have failed numerous fact checks, as well as rejecting the consensus of science when it comes to climate change.
     
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,959
    Likes Received:
    111,154
    here's another one you'll like

    SUSAN VASS: REMEMBERING LOUIE ANDERSON

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/01/susan-vass-remembering-louie-anderson.php
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,434
    Likes Received:
    15,868
    In 1994, Ukraine agreed to get rid of its nuclear weapons in exchange for ... being left alone by Russia. That worked out wonderfully for them.
     
    Nook, Deckard and Amiga like this.
  19. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,434
    Likes Received:
    15,868
    That's what we did in Iraq, taking their resources as our own.

    On the flipside, after WW2, we rebuilt Germany and Japan with no particular payout or profit motive.

    Which worked out better?
     
  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,400
    Likes Received:
    25,405
    lol, we can use Germany and Japan as pretext for any noble crackpot invasion, yet America has been in some war in almost every year since. Saudi, Kuwait, and Japan paid for most of the First Iraq War with the EU also chipping in. Dat worked out GUUD. Somehow this "intervention business" is "all on our tab" ever since a dub**** went in alone.

    So we tried to be sleazy about seizing iraqi oil only to fully reverse the stance because we tried to bill the invasion as liberation. You act as if we still own those fields in perpetuity (like the bases we run in Japan and Germany) when China is slowly taking over. https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24747388.html

    I'll expand your swipe and will claim that if we wanted to invade again, we might as well add 50-100 year imperialism era contracts to at least buffer the multigenerational debt Americans are forced to pay right now.

    Flipping your question with a closer context, which worked out better Iraq or Afghanistan? Dumb little me can't comprehend lost Trillions for each disaster. Iraq...so evil and mercenary. Afghanistan...so "simple" in it's wrath.

    I'm not even supporting a case to topple Ukraine for gas. And let's quit using 80yr old successes to justify trillions in deficit backed spending for a plot of land most Americans will NOT lose sleep over?

    If Ukraine wants protection, pay up. The world's policeman lost its pension years ago and even if it hadn't lost whatever moral credit or goodwill decades ago, it's became as directionless as NATO

    So how about Americans not dump more money on more meaningless foreign entanglements, will that work out better?
     
    #100 Invisible Fan, Jan 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now