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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    Santa Claus coming down the chimney would be a minor incursion
     
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  2. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    Father Frost needs a Rockets Red Santa hat
     
  4. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    [​IMG]

    Can't believe they had a cleaner logo that more closely resembles our champ years than what we have

    [​IMG]

    Thanks, Rockets.
     
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  5. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Ukraine is now used primarily by the US presidents to show that they are strong and signal to the military industrial complex guys that they will not threaten their profits. While Putin also loves Ukraine for political purposes it is also understandable that he would be threatened by having nukes and a heavily armed Ukraine on its borders. American exceptionalismo of course, but I could understand that American would have some real fear if we had Russian nukes on the Mexican border and Mexico was in an anti-American alliance with say Russia and China while massively arming the Mexicans.

    But relax, no need to start buying yellow ribbons or think about signing up to keep the Russkies from landing on the beaches. Ten to one the Ukraine story will fade once its political usefulness is unnecessary. Hey we never even hear about our dear friends the Kuwaitis whose cause was what starting the whole mess leading to Iraq War I and II, ISIS and Syria etc.
     
  6. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...

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    who?
     
  7. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...

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    You can be a pacifist without being a propagandist for the Russian.
     
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  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Americans love war and feigning remorse over its causalities. Football, the proxy for brutal wars isn't going away despite making vegetables out of beef cakes. That's the only impossible burger rednecks will consume on a weekly basis

    I think I have to accept that because it's undeniable and repeats itself every other god damn year.

    How about we only fight wars that pay for itself? None of this only haliburton gets rich while Israel and Saudi goads us into another round of faux stimulus that hides the stink of crippling debt.

    Something like as reward for white knighting Ukraine, she gives us a go in bed for a month and enough oil reserves to make pillow talk pleasant?

    Disgusting disgusting...I know. We're all pure freedom minded souls...
     
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  9. dmoneybangbang

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    Realpolitik…

    America is surrounded by two large oceans while Ukraine is near a bunch of Russians and Turks (Ottomans). I can empathize with Ukraine but their sovereignty should depend more on countries in Europe, particularly Germany. What’s the point of making concessions or sending troops if Europe is going to be too dependent on Russian energy? What’s to stop Putin from playing this trick again if the EU isn’t strong?

    Ukraine is in the EU and not NATO.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

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    And Biden isn’t committing direct military intervention.

    TC has been pretty soft on Russia since 2016….
     
  11. tinman

    tinman Member
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    There are no nukes, except possibly left over Soviet ones, in Ukraine and there is no serious proposals to place nukes in Ukraine. At the moment most NATO countries including the US are not pushing for Ukraine's admission to NATO.
    Kuwait is not under threat of imminent invasion.

    Why the situation with Ukraine matters is that it is a country that most of the people there have no interest in being back to a federation with Russia while Russia has already taken Ukrainian territory and for the last few years has been supporting a separatist conflict in part of the country. That alone should be enough justification for concern about Ukraine but given Ukraine's location and other issues with neighboring states like Belarus are major concerns to the security of the rest of Europe. Leaving aside ideology a return to Russian dominance of Eastern Europe will spark more of a build up of militaries within the EU and given the NATO will lead to more US military involvement back in Europe. It is actually in the longterm interest to keep Ukraine as an independent country that isn't part of NATO or an new Warsaw Pact. A stable independent Ukraine will mean the US won't need to be as involved in the region.
     
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  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    The ideal outcome would be for Ukraine to declare itself a neutral state and agree to never take sides in any conflict or allow foreign troops on its side from either side in return for a guarantee from Russia never to invade, engage in covert operations, or amass troops on its borders all monitored by the UN
     
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  14. dmoneybangbang

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  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    you'll like this one

    ON BIDEN’S BITTER BLUSTER

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/01/on-bidens-bitter-bluster.php
     
  16. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...

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    lol, jeez man

    Power Line - Media Bias/Fact Check (mediabiasfactcheck.com)
    • Overall, we rate Power Line strongly right biased based on story selection that always favors the right. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the use of poor sources that have failed numerous fact checks, as well as rejecting the consensus of science when it comes to climate change.
     
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    here's another one you'll like

    SUSAN VASS: REMEMBERING LOUIE ANDERSON

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/01/susan-vass-remembering-louie-anderson.php
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    In 1994, Ukraine agreed to get rid of its nuclear weapons in exchange for ... being left alone by Russia. That worked out wonderfully for them.
     
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  19. Major

    Major Member

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    That's what we did in Iraq, taking their resources as our own.

    On the flipside, after WW2, we rebuilt Germany and Japan with no particular payout or profit motive.

    Which worked out better?
     
  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    lol, we can use Germany and Japan as pretext for any noble crackpot invasion, yet America has been in some war in almost every year since. Saudi, Kuwait, and Japan paid for most of the First Iraq War with the EU also chipping in. Dat worked out GUUD. Somehow this "intervention business" is "all on our tab" ever since a dub**** went in alone.

    So we tried to be sleazy about seizing iraqi oil only to fully reverse the stance because we tried to bill the invasion as liberation. You act as if we still own those fields in perpetuity (like the bases we run in Japan and Germany) when China is slowly taking over. https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24747388.html

    I'll expand your swipe and will claim that if we wanted to invade again, we might as well add 50-100 year imperialism era contracts to at least buffer the multigenerational debt Americans are forced to pay right now.

    Flipping your question with a closer context, which worked out better Iraq or Afghanistan? Dumb little me can't comprehend lost Trillions for each disaster. Iraq...so evil and mercenary. Afghanistan...so "simple" in it's wrath.

    I'm not even supporting a case to topple Ukraine for gas. And let's quit using 80yr old successes to justify trillions in deficit backed spending for a plot of land most Americans will NOT lose sleep over?

    If Ukraine wants protection, pay up. The world's policeman lost its pension years ago and even if it hadn't lost whatever moral credit or goodwill decades ago, it's became as directionless as NATO

    So how about Americans not dump more money on more meaningless foreign entanglements, will that work out better?
     
    #100 Invisible Fan, Jan 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022

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