Where is the army that was going to take over Europe? I thoughts thats why it was so important we stopped Russia in Ukraine.
They are right below: Remember 2014 when we didn't try to stop them? That's why we're back here where we are.
That's the super-optimistic Ukranian number. NATO and CIA say more like 15k. I'm sure the Russian official number is like 500, or something like that. I'm sure it is pretty difficult to come up with a legitimate honest estimate, if you aren't the Russian Army, even if you are really trying.
I know Russia has been struggling far more than they ever anticipated, but closer to 15k sounds more believable to me
@Ottomaton challenged my statement with that tweet. Then he turn around and largely admitted it was propaganda.
I think you misinterpret the read on Russia. It was important that we stopped them from going to war because if they win we all lose and if they lose we could REALLY lose. Nuclear powers with erratic dictators with illusions of grandeur should always be persuaded diplomatically, or discouraged from invading another country in a prophetic manifest destiny way. That’s how world wars can start and in a way Russia and Putin did start one. It’s just nobody else really came to his aid other than Lukashenko and some off the books funding from the oil states. Everyone else in the world basically minus a few bad actors have some level of response back at Russia to help Ukraine defeat them for everyone else. So yeah it was important then and now. Russia isn’t dangerous because of their troop numbers anyways and you know that.
Why would in the event that they win, then we all lose? I'm sure Ukraine would lose plenty, which is a great reason. But to SG's point, many leaders have raised the stakes and consequences beyond a hegemonic takeover. Curious on your thoughts.
Because they wouldn’t stop at Ukraine if they won. Putin said it himself that his goal was basically to reform the Soviet Union. Which means a whole lot more countries being overrun by a tyrant. When country after country gets rolled at some point war would be inevitable.
Ukraine has been running a huge propaganda machine (like Russia) it’s in their interest to show they’re winning so that we and everyone else continues to supply them with $$$, military and most of all…intel
If Russia has succeeded in taking Ukraine it puts Putin in control of much of the World’s energy and food supplies. If NATO just sat by and did little to nothing that would be a message to Putin that NATO is likely toothless and would tempt him to try taking the Baltic States. At the minimum it likely means he moves on other former Soviet states like Moldova and Georgia.
*I want to be clear though that if Russia is a stable democracy than I'd have no problem with them being a superpower again, and if they were stable then maybe the Soviet States would be in a position to be in Russia's sphere of influence in a way that Canada, Mexico and Central America are in our sphere of influence. With climate change, and migrations north all but certain, I think the world needs Russia in the future. They just cannot be ruled by someone like Vladamir Putin, and they cannot be a threat to another world war. You know what country would be an even bigger threat to the world if they were run by a tyrant hellbent on conquest.... The United States of America.
Russia is bleeding it's military dry, it is a war of attrition and Russia doesn't have the man power to win. I don't see how Putin can get out and stay in power.....that is the fulcram of the situation. DD
Your concerns are understood. Do you believe its NATO's responsibility to police the world? Or should it only defend NATO only countries?
