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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Major

    Major Member

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    Multiple things can be true and there's plenty of criticism to go to everyone. Zelenskyy didn't prepare properly pre-war but did everything right after. Biden provided excellent intel, but didn't provide weapons or get involved early enough and underestimated Ukraine's will to fight. Republicans in Congress also ignored Biden's warnings and pushed back against the possibility of war. Putin is the actual invader - so he's the primary cause of the conflict and he also has had plenty of screw ups on their side.

    This is Zelenskyy AFTER Russia had started the invasion still resisting a general mobilization:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...hes-programme-economic-patriotism-2022-02-22/

    There was pretty extensive criticism of this move at the time - this isn't revisionist. People thought he was a comedian playing President and completely out of his league. But then after his "I need weapons, not a ride" moment, he has done basically every single thing right.
     
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  2. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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  3. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    This is the National Review's spin on what Biden was saying. Given that Biden is still pushing getting more arms to Ukraine I don't think he's throwing Zelensky under the bus.
     
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  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Ukraine compromise very soon?
     
  6. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    intel does not equal weapons.
     
  7. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    The US has sent a lot of weapons to Ukraine already and is sending more.
     
  9. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    see earlier in the thread. weapons are appreciated, but they're too few in number, inadequately supplied with ammunition, and would have been more profitably supplied earlier.

    but I suppose it depends on what one (JB) hopes to accomplish.
     
  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Is your contention that the US is continuing to supply weapons and ammunition but in a less than optimally efficient way because they hope the Ukraine will only be partially successful and have negotiate the loss of territory to Russia?
     
  11. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    Ukraine has already lost territory. The time to move was in 2014/2015; but we didnt because we needed Russia for the Iran seal.

    As Ive always thought Russia is going to want to hurt Ukraine as much as possible and annex all of the Russian areas. Theyre going for Transnistria (Moldova) next.
     
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  12. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Agreed. More should have been done earlier. I'm just curious what @basso thinks Biden wants with his aid to Ukraine now.
     
  13. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    Im surr whatever Biden does or doesnt do basso wont like it. At least he's not a Russia cheerleader like some I know
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Yes. I generally agree with him regarding the Ukraine issue.
     
  15. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    Man things really have changed (for the worse) since the Obama years. You know the GOP has slid when Basso and FB agree on an issue
     
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  16. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    In truth the GOP and I have probably agreed an many issues, just not the means to achieve those issues.

    I feel like that's the case with most of the nation.

    But if it makes you feel better, this is probably one of the few issues on which basso and I can agree
     
  17. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    pre Trump I'd agree.

    Now? I think there is a very vocal and decent sized minority who want a very different America than most of the country. Mostly evangelical types and a lot of men in my generation who've turned to inceldom and a sort of trolling form of politics instead of wanting to inprove things.
     
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  18. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    and thata not to say thats all Trump voters. But Trump and a lot of youtubers plus natural backlash to social change and disillusionment with socieyy to the ppint if nihilism
     
  19. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    my contention is Biden does not recognize the moment.
     
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  20. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    Biden wants the appearance of doing something, w/o the risk of actually committing.
     

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