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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Lol i liked - or at least could stomach - the old @tinman whose schtick was to publicly get erect to old pictures of Hannah Storm not the soulless Musk/Putin/Trump sigma

    Boring. Not a Chad at all.

    @tinman
     
  2. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  3. dmoneybangbang

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    There’s only one Carl Herrera.
     
  4. Gioan Baotixita

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    Does your man with his tattered mind even know what year we are in? First week in February 2022 and he still thinks we’re in 2020. You and a few of your liberal colleagues in here are going off the cliffs with this guy . It’s not too late , join the rebellions, look around you, people are fed up and giving him the middle fingers. It won’t end very well for you if you’re don’t change course. 2022 and 2024 will be a bloodbath.
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Emmanuel Macron has gone all in trying to diplomatically defuse the situation.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/12/world/europe/macron-putin-ukraine.html
    Emmanuel Macron in His Labyrinth
    The French leader recounted his face-off with Vladimir Putin and dismissed Washington’s exchange of letters with Moscow, gambling that his diplomacy could pay off before April elections.

    PARIS — Around a table much smaller than the 20-foot-long oval slab across which he confronted President Vladimir V. Putin in Moscow, President Emmanuel Macron gathered a few journalists this week to confide that the crisis in Ukraine was taking up “more than half my time, the bulk of my time” because the world stands “at a tipping point” of history.

    The table was some six miles up in the air, on the presidential plane that whisked Mr. Macron to Moscow, Kyiv and Berlin this week, where he warned of “irreversible” damage if Russia invaded Ukraine, and said it was imperative “not to surrender to fate.”

    Mr. Macron is convinced that the current crisis, marked by Russian revanchism after its perceived humiliation by the West, reflects a failure to rethink Europe’s collective security after the end of the Cold War. On that, at least, he and Mr. Putin seem to agree. The formidable task before the French president is to figure out what could possibly replace it, and convince others, including the United States, of its virtues.

    By the end of the week, the standoff with Russia, which conducted military exercises all around Ukraine’s borders, looked as menacing as ever. Yet just nine weeks from a presidential election, Mr. Macron has made the risky bet that he can coax Mr. Putin toward dialogue and that French voters will be more taken with his global stature than alienated by his inattention.

    If he fails, he risks not only losing their votes and their confidence, but also damaging his prestige and that of his country by being seen abroad as an overreaching leader.

    Wary of that perception, he has taken great pains to coordinate his efforts with other European leaders, some of them skeptical, and with President Biden. A 75-minute conversation on Friday among Western leaders displayed a united front behind attempts to persuade Russia “to de-escalate the crisis and choose the path of dialogue,” the European Commission said.

    Mr. Macron was 11 when the Berlin Wall came down. Mr. Biden was 46. Some divergence of view is probably inevitable. Mr. Macron sees no reason that the structure of the alliance that prevailed over the Soviet Union should be eternal.

    “The question is not NATO, but how do we create an area of security,” he said. “How do we live in peace in this region?” Part of his goal in Moscow, he suggested, had been to prod Mr. Putin away from a NATO obsession — that Ukraine should never join the alliance — toward another “framework.” He said he had told the Russian leader “the framework you propose is false.”

    To turn up at the Kremlin, facing the man who has put a gun to the head of the West with 130,000 troops massed on the Ukrainian border, was necessary, Mr. Macron argued. Opening another diplomatic avenue, more flexible than the exchange of letters between Russia and the United States that Mr. Macron repeatedly dismissed as useless, gained time by locking in meetings in the coming weeks. The two leaders are expected to speak again on Saturday.

    Over more than five hours on Monday, the two leaders confronted each other. Mr. Macron said he hammered on “the guarantees he could give me on the situation at the border” to such a degree that Mr. Putin at one point said he was being “tortured.”

    Mr. Putin, with equal insistence, attacked NATO’s expansion east since 1997 and the aggression this constituted.

    The Kremlin has disputed that Mr. Macron won any concessions, but said there were “seeds of reason” in his approach, in contrast to attempted British diplomacy, which was dismissed by the Russian foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, as a conversation between “the mute and the deaf.”

    What Mr. Macron’s new framework might be for Ukraine’s security and Europe’s is unclear. But it appears that it would somehow offer Ukraine ironclad guarantees of its sovereignty and independence in ways that left NATO membership as a mirage, as it simultaneously satisfied Russia that Ukrainian security had not been strengthened at the expense of Moscow’s.

    In effect, Mr. Macron believes that some sleight of hand is conceivable that would at once leave Ukrainians free and secure to look West for their future, and Mr. Putin free to continue thinking the two countries form one “historical and spiritual space,” as the Russian leader put it in a 5,000-word disquisition on “the historical unity of Russians and Ukrainians,” published last summer.
    More at link.
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  6. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Being naive. I Hope Macron succeeds.

    The way he was welcomed on his arrival is so Putin. No motorcade pickup on arrival, had to walk through the terminal, required to take a PCR test (he didn’t and so was kept physically far away from Putin), and had to wait for 1.5 hrs to meet Putin.
     
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  7. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Ukrainians understand Putin is a smooth criminal

    @Jontro
     
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  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Maybe he looked into Putin's eyes
     
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  9. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    Putin won when he got Trump elected. F that MFer. I'm all for cutting off Russia economically including their internet to the rest of the world. Just isolate the F out of them.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

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    Pay your bet!
     
  11. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Just listening to that again is nauseating. He is so full of shi*. He really is delusional. That's just one of thousands of examples of Trump checking the boxes of a malignant narcissist/sociopath diagnosis.

    He really is sick in the head.
     
  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    Trump
     
  13. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Hillary
     
  14. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Well invasion feels inevitable at this point. Kinda weird to see play out live.
     
  15. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  16. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    Ukraine and Russia are crap hole countries.
     
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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  18. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    I don't pretend to know much about warfare, but I feel like this would be a prime opportunity to use a drone army to pick off invading Russian forces. US controlled, Ukraine housed. Just a nightmare for a ground force. I feel this is a better way to "arm" the opposition and really punish Russia.
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    The Russians have drone and anti-drone technology too. Nearly every military in the world including ISIS are using drones to some extent and most militaries have or are developing anti-drone measures.
     
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Russia has pretty sophisticated air defense weapons that I’m sure are going to destroy just about anything in the air the day they (hopefully don’t) attack.

    That’s why the primary weapon Ukraine has wanted from the US are the anti tank Javelin missiles. There’s basically nothing Russia can do but just assume those Javelins are going to destroy the first round of tanks that roll in. Having those in excess are going to be key.

    Drones of the capacity you are talking about are really really expensive too. So the big reason why the US and NATO probably won’t use a ton of drones is because of cost and then the fact that Russia can propagate that it’s the US fighting them not “their brothers” in Ukraine. A US drone might as well be Chris Kyle from their perspective. A Ukrainian firing a Raytheon produced Javelin… different look…. Not world war 3.

    The Five eyes intelligence that Ukraine is going to get though is priceless. This could be very much guerrilla warfare style of fighting as Putin won’t want to just bomb Kiev given this is a political war for him, and a war based on lies. Russian bombs wiping out cities and Ukrainian children ensures he loses the politics he absolutely needs to win in most of Ukraine and most importantly with Russians. With the five eyes intelligence, Ukrainian military will know everything coming at them at every step of the way.
     

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