It's one thing to claim a willingness to "fight to the death" and something completely different to actually carry it out in practice. Other than when under the threat of execution, when did any country ever "fight to the death" in history? Yes the Ukrainian military is better armed than the Georgian one, but it's not that much better. Ukraine did inherit a decent amount of Soviet era equipments but due to low military budget most of them are not in active service and especially in the air force the personnel are poorly trained. Who cares about some wild and ridiculous boasts about retributions that the Chechens are claiming on the internet, through out the 1st & 2nd Chechen wars the Russian military have killed over 30,000 Chechen fighters and probably several hundred thousand Chechen civilians,,,, did their claim of destroying Moscow ever materialize? Yes the world might be against Russia in this, but who's willing to engage in a military conflict with Russia just for Ukraine? We are talking about Russia here, not some sorry 3rd rate military like Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Iran, North Korea etc. Why should the Russian rise up and overthrow Putin? Despite all his problems, during his rein Russia have been very stable politically and managed to achieve very impressive economic growth and wealth generation for its citizens.
Is there any true confirmation that Russia has moved thousands of troop into Ukraine? All i've seen is the same rolling stock footage of about 8 men in unmarked military gear standing on a street.
So it's not just about Crimea. Russia is getting ready to take the capital. I don't know if you guys really understand how serious this is about to be.
Well if you know the situaiton over there, they have been under Russian oppression forever, they are tired of it, they are poor and most have nothing to live for and are willing to die for their country. You have to understand the mentality over there. It's still a very macho culture with the men. The point is, we could see something historic here. The world unitiing against Russia. Americans, Europeans and Muslims fighting together. That's why I brought that up. When you say "just for Ukraine" it tells me you really don't know that much about what you are talking about. Do you know that Ukraine is the largest country in Europe with vast natural resources? This isn't Georgia or Moldova or Belarus. Fair point, but there is still major corruption and Putin is a former KGB agent so the people of Russia still aren't really in a free democracy. The younger generation is capable of rising up. Combine that with the gay rights bashing and now an invasion of another country and there could be an uprising. Keep in mind there are many Russian/Ukrainian familes spread out over both countries. You know a Russian husband and Ukrainian wife or vice versa. My wife's mother is a school teacher in Ukraine and the russian and ukrainian kids have been fighting each other over the past few weeks.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>It's fightening! First reports seem to indicate <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23volunteers&src=hash">#volunteers</a> are registering in <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Kiev&src=hash">#Kiev</a> to fight Russian invasion troops... Is that legal??</p>— Middle East News (@MiddleEast_BRK) <a href="https://twitter.com/MiddleEast_BRK/statuses/439919654811996160">March 2, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Kiev warns of war "..biggest confrontation between Russia & the West since Cold War" Via <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters">@Reuters</a>: <a href="http://t.co/7oYweO2IKV">http://t.co/7oYweO2IKV</a></p>— Chris Daniels (@ChrisDaniels5) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChrisDaniels5/statuses/439922736802959360">March 2, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Working in <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters">@reuters</a> Moscow bureau for 5 yrs, surreal to read this: Putin ready to invade Ukraine; Kiev warns of war <a href="http://t.co/3oIJucz8ZM">http://t.co/3oIJucz8ZM</a></p>— Amie Ferris-Rotman (@Amie_FR) <a href="https://twitter.com/Amie_FR/statuses/439918206317101057">March 2, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Turkey's Minister of Foreign Affairs heads to Kiev, extends support to the Crimean Tatars <a href="https://t.co/fWqb79sU9P">https://t.co/fWqb79sU9P</a></p>— Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) <a href="https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/statuses/439868719645224960">March 1, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Why? Natural resources? The USSR is no longer. Eventually, the locals win the war because they have nothing to lose and the Russians or those that identify with them will always be tempted by a place with civil rest.
This was the kind of war the US army was designed for.Don't think the US has appetite for any war.However, I am sure there are some in the Pentagon are itching to use their toys.
If the people in Afghanistan didn't fight to their death and the Palestinians didn't fight to their death, I very much doubt the Ukrainians will. It's "easy" to claim such things on the internet, it's something completely different when trying to face down a tank or attack helicopter with a stick or at best AK47 in your hands. What's historic about this? The US & EU have always been united in trying to contain Russia, nothing new here. None of the middle eastern countries are capable of any significant form of military power projection, even if for some crazy reason they want to fight Russia they are not physically capable of doing so. Ukraine is not Georgia or Moldova, but it's also not France, Germany etc. How many EU nations is willing to risk very very significant casualties, your own country getting bombed, huge financial costs just for Ukraine? Do the EU really care that Ukraine have the largest land mass in Europe? Does Ukraine have significant oil and natural gas reserve? There's not much the EU can do. Even if they want to intervene militarily they are not really powerful enough to fight Russia near their home turf. Even economic sanctions are highly problematic, Russia is a huge energy exporter to the EU. A very large percentage of EU's natural gas is supplied by Russia and this is not something you can change quickly (I'm talking years). Corruption is a common problem for all developing nations even the democratic ones. Hell, democratic developing countries like India and Philippines are actually more corrupt than China, a much more authoritarian but also arguably much more competent regime.
If Putin has his way, Russia would be 'reunited' with all the old Soviet satellites into the old USSR. This is really disturbing, Russia invading the small surrounding countries with apparent impunity. I'm curious on what China will say about this though, because I'm sure the US, EU, UK etc are going to go through the UN first.
Their story will be that they are simply restoring the democratically elected puppet rather than invading. They are fighting for democracy! LOL.
The more dangerous point here is that Russia is setting an insane precedent. If the West (or even China) lets Russia have its way (annexing Crimea, or even invading Kiev), then we might as well burn up all the international agreements regarding sovereignty and that BS and declare every country for itself. The problem here is that if Putin was merely threatening to invade, i.e. using the withdrawal of his forces from Ukrainian borders to bargain for whatevers, then it would make sense. But he has basically invaded Crimea already, so it looks like he actually wants some Ukrainian land annexed back to Russia.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>I will feel very safe in Texas. Ukraine gave up its weapons to US govt for promise of security. But Texas has 2nd Amendment!</p>— Garry Kasparov (@Kasparov63) <a href="https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/439990988367724544" data-datetime="2014-03-01T23:10:00+00:00">March 1, 2014</a></blockquote> <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Someone I know is there right now, just north of Yalta. She reports several trucks filled with masked soldiers who speak Russians driving down the road by the scores every 15 minutes. She also has accounts from people she trusts that planes transporting more masked soldiers have landed some hours ago. She estimates about 11,000 Russian troops have arrived since this latest flare-up in Ukaraine. I haven't felt this way for 23 years when Croatia/Slovenia declared their independence. I remember endless articles about bloodshed and sectarian violence, and the international community just 'monitoring'. I hope this doesn't go down that road. Short of massive military firepower and public support, the EU/US are powerless against Russia just like 6 years ago.
http://world.time.com/2014/03/01/many-ukrainians-want-russia-to-invade/ Article is poorly done and inaccurate, but a thoughtful summary from the comments section-- Sounds like splitting up and the Western half declaring autonomy is the most peaceful way to go.
To be fair... "Crimea is an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine and is governed by the Constitution of Crimea in accordance with the laws of Ukraine." Those situations never end well!
I am from Lithuania and the events happening in Ukraine matters very much too me (2008 - Georgia, 2014 - Ukraine, 201x - Lithuania??). For past month I have been following the situation on internet, spending at least few hours each day. What I can say is that even western media spreads Putin lies. I know US always has their propoganda, but Russia's propoganda is on some different level. For years here in Lithuania we have russian-paid commentators who always post comments to support russia, destroy Lithuanian spirit and etcetera, they have paid journalists, they have paid representatives in our government, they are buying votes. this is even bigger in Ukraine, this exist in all post-soviet countries. this, to some extent, exist in western europe and all over the world. Now I would like to disprove myths by russian propoganda: Myth no. 1 - Ukrainian revolution is lead by radical neo-nazi movement. In fact it was started by local afhgan muslim journalist who had been racially harassed in Ukraine before. A lot of muslims, jews, ethnic russians, russian speaking ukrainians were and are participating in Maidan. Of course, there are few nazi ideologists, mainly soccer fans, but during all this time, they were working together with and helping muslims, jews, russians.And that is nothing but a BEAUTY! Even gay community was part of maydan. Evenmore, at the first days Russia was calling it Gayeuromaidan. Only for the media propoganda they are calling it a Radical Nazi movement. Myth no 2 - Maidan protestors were not peaceful. People who gathered in Maidan square were very peaceful. I have friends who had visited it from Lithuania. Every people could be there and feel safe unless Berkut tries to disperse the meeting. You can see people throwing molotov cocktails and rocks but it happened only when berkut trie to invade teh square. Protestors never attacked berkut outside the territoty of protestations. All reported so called violence was a defense actions. Pro-russian protestors had protests in Kiew called anti-Maidan. Noone attacked them. They did not suffer anything Maidan protestors have to experience now in Eastern Ukraine. Myth No. 3 - Half of Ukraines population wants to be part of Russia. We can read in Media that it is about western ukraine and eastern Ukraine all-day. The whole Maidan movement was against Yanukovich and his co., who stole so much money from Ukraine and its people. it is Russian's propoganda that the protests are about ukrainians vs. russians so he has a pretext to invade Ukraine. In fact, only the crimea has the majority of russians. there are significant number of russians in eastern ukraine but it is still lower than Ukrainians. But that's not even the fact. A lot of russian people in eastern ukraine does not support Russia. The anti-maidan protests, russian flags raised in administrative buildings were lead by people who came to Ukraine from Russia only days ago. Local people from smaller cities do not recognize all the people participating in pro-russian protests. There are a lot of identified people from the riots in Eastern Ukraine whose residence on their social network is Moscow. People living in a border to Russia region are reporting that buses full of people were and are coming from Russia to Ukraine non-stop. Here you have the majority of pro-russian protestors, riot participants and provocators. Of course, there are a lot of native pro-russians in Ukraine who support Russia but they have all that propoganda about Nazi-maidan in front of their eyes. On a side note, even if there would be a majority (there ain't) of people who would like to join Russia, this should not happen. after WW2, in Soviet era, Stalin's government killed about 8 million people. You hear me right, 8 freaking millions, ukrainians. Deported a lot of russians to Ukraine so they would be significant ethnic part in region, so they would be their card in events in the future. In events such as NOW. they did the same to Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and other countries. Thank god, Lithuania gave up on Kaliningrad many years ago. It would be so easier for Putin to invade Lithuania, would Kaliningrad be on our territory. On a side not, a lot of russians in Kaliningrad, would like to live in Lithuania insted of Russia.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a class="hashtag" action="hash" title="#Ukrainian">#Ukrainian</a> marines in their base in <a class="hashtag" action="hash" title="#Perevalnoe">#Perevalnoe</a> - commander negotiating deal with <a class="hashtag" action="hash" title="#Russian">#Russian</a> troops outside. <a class="hashtag" action="hash" title="#Crimea">#Crimea</a> <a href="http://t.co/Mc6LHCe9Xi" title="http://twitter.com/lindseyhilsum/status/440113619414818816/photo/1" org_href="http://twitter.com/lindseyhilsum/status/440113619414818816/photo/1">pic.twitter.com/Mc6LHCe9Xi</a></p>— Lindsey Hilsum (@lindseyhilsum) <a href="https://twitter.com/lindseyhilsum/status/440113619414818816" data-datetime="2014-03-02T07:17:18+00:00">March 2, 2014</a></blockquote> <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Extraordinary standoff at Ukrainian mil base at Perevalne. Russian troops demanding they lay down weapons. Uk. soldiers defiant,manning gate</p>— Bill Neely (@BillNeelyNBC) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillNeelyNBC/status/440101810125438976" data-datetime="2014-03-02T06:30:22+00:00">March 2, 2014</a></blockquote> <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>This the 1st confrontation between Russian and Uk troops. No shots fired. Yet. But Ukrainian base would be overwhelmed in fight. <a class="hashtag" action="hash" title="#Crimea">#Crimea</a></p>— Bill Neely (@BillNeelyNBC) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillNeelyNBC/status/440102062068891648" data-datetime="2014-03-02T06:31:22+00:00">March 2, 2014</a></blockquote> <script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
