WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Senior U.S. officials say a deal to sell F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan was approved and the United States will compete for contracts to provide Pakistan's nuclear rival India with the same jets. President Bush called Indian Prime Minister Monmohan Singh to tell him the decision to go ahead with the sale to Pakistan, the officials announced on Friday. India has balked at the sale. India and Pakistan have been at odds for decades over the region of Kashmir. The United States had banned weapons sales to both India and Pakistan in the 1990s because each had tested nuclear weapons. One official said that the United States has had to adapt to the reality that both countries have a nuclear capability. "The U.S. has to live in the world that exists, not the world we wish" exists, the official said. He added that the United States is trying to create a "positive force" and defuse tensions in a potentially dangerous region. U.S. officials said the sale to Pakistan is the result of the deepening relationship with that country. The improved relations, they said, came about because of President Pervez Musharraf 's actions since the September 11, 2001, attacks -- assisting with the hunt for Osama bin Laden, cooperating with the investigation into the weapons network of Pakistani scientist A.Q. Khan and agreeing to elections in 2007. Last year, the Bush administration declared Pakistan a non-NATO ally and this year, the United States started a five-year aid package to Pakistan worth $3 billion. http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/25/jet.sale/index.html
On Sept. 20, 2001 President Bush said: "From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. Our nation has been put on notice, we're not immune from attack. We will take defensive measures against terrorism to protect Americans." I know that F-16’s aren’t the greatest planes out there (too light to carry the bomb) but isn’t just a tad hypocritical of Bush to sell planes to Pakistan especially since they are harboring and supporting terrorists? And why are we supporting a dictatorship (Pakistan) versus a democratic society (India)? Has Musharraf really been that good of an ally to us?
they're not harboring or supporting terrorists...are they?? my understanding is they're working as hard as anyone to root that crap out.
I suspect that Pakistan is a week away from being a mullah run country. Bill Hicks would say that we have to arm our enimies to make the fight fair.
Is it that or is that there is a profit to be made? And we wonder why the rest of the world hates America.
Pakastan has done a lot of what President Bush has asked and much of what was asked was not very popular among Pakistani people. I'm sure the Pakistan government is asking for payback. This is why politics is so crappy. This is not a perfect world and sometimes you have to compromise in order to get things you want. Everyone on this board has compromised something in order to make someone else happy or get something they wanted or even just to get someone off their back. If you were in office I bet you would find plenty of situations where what you wanted to do was impossible without some sort of compromise. And as soon as you compromise, your enemies will attack you like no tomorrow. Regarding "why the rest of the world hates America" that is simply not true and saying things like that makes you come across as either ignorant or hateful yourself. If we sell planes to Pakistan it makes India mad. If we don't sell planes to Pakistan it makes Pakistan mad. No matter what you do you are going to piss someone off.
The article said we are also trying to sell the planes to India. In other words, we are not supporting one against the other, we are supporting both.
Excellent points. Politics do suck. But if you stand up and say we won't compromise with terrorists and then sell fighter jets to a country where many beleive Bin Laden may be hiding out and that same country is running an unsactioned nuclear program...then you leave yourself a tad bit open to criticism. Let me clarify that. People don't generally "hate" Americans. But they do generally "hate" American policy. So I'm sorry if you got offended by the usage of the word hate but that's the truth. It's the hypocrisy, or perceived hypocrisy, that people dislike. W has made many many very strong and holier-than-thou unwavering prolomations in his 2 terms. As a result, he's angered a lot of people. So he leaves himself open to such resultful sentiments. I'm sorry you are offended but poll after poll shows American popularity is relatively low overseas. Heck, W's most recent poll taken of Americans has him at the lowest popularity of his presidency. So I think you characterized me unfairly by saying I am ignorant and hateful.
i don't know how informed you are about Pakistan...but it is not a week away from mullah country..... silly post.... Pakistan is a country that is surviving on loans... the country is deeply in debt with the world Bank .... and it does not make an income to support the loans.... that is the reason why they kiss the U.S's a$$...they got their loan as soon as they let the U.S attack Afghan from their country.......plus if they did'nt they would have been attacked as a terrorist country.... a two edged sword..... and yes the country is a military run government.... there is no democracy in this country... they friggin have a prime minister and a president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. ... with the president being a militant who chooses if the prime minister is "good" or "bad" ... he calls for an election and places that fool in his place.... the U.S if anything needs to get rid of this guy and bring "freedom" to the people but no instead they sell F-16 to these idiots... the whole government is corrupt and the money that they got from the loan is going to people within the government ties.... instead of building a nation...they sooner or later are gonna run out of cash again and need another loan.... and if they are not in the U.S's good books then no loan.... so i guess you get my point.... eventually things will get ugly in that country... so it is obvious that the U.S is boosting its economy... they will be selling to India next... another Billion dollar sale.... 1/3 of the aviation accounts come from the GOVERNMENT... so yes this is a business with people with big money and power influencing these sales.... though it does not go well with the fight against terror.
when i say things will get ugly in Pakistan i don't mean Mullah's will take over... just this militant prez of theirs will countinue to run the country no matter what cause he is exactly the control that the U.S wants... but he is no good for that country when it comes to democracy. that country is a mess.
My comment was obviously tongue in cheek. My understanding is that the majority of the Pakinstani citizens sympathize with the Taliban (extreme Islamic fundies) more so than with the US. The political leadership in Pakistan appears to not have the support of the people, especially in backing the US causes in the region. BTW, presidents proir to W refused to sell F-16s to Pakistan since they thought the country unstable. Maybe we could sell F-16 parts later to an unstable Pakistan to fund clandestine, nondemocratic movements in other countries. Bring it on.
lil info we're selling India Patriot missles (PAC-2) with the intention of preventing Pakistan's Ghauri and Hataf missiles from penetrating its air space India has a new medium range (17 mi) Akash SAM not to mention the 4 other missiles India's Defense R&D program is working on This decidedly tips the balance of power in the direction of India, and Musharraf was irritated by the move if you'll excuse the understatement Also, if we didn't sell Pakistan F-16's they'd be buying Mig 29's I consider the F-16 superior even though it's likely it will not have the most advanced avionics currently available for the Falcon F-16's fly by wire control system and agility make the pilot better, as a well trained pilot almost flys it by thought This is a huge advantage in a single seat fighter b/c in most engagements the pilot can easily be overwhelmed by all of the tasks he is asked to perform. according to the Luftwaffe which flies both the F-4 Phantom and the Mig 29, the F-4 has a superior radar, so mixed formations is the norm. This is somewhat compensated for by it's advanced IR tracking system. The Mig 29 also has a much shorter range than the F-16. This is all to say, we're selling both sides advanced weapon systems. Dollar for dollar you can't beat the F-16 but it's not going to outclass the Indian Air Force. It just keeps the balance of power close while keeping Musharraf happy.
Well the patriot missle system being labeled almost a total failure leads me to believe I am not wrong. Here is another article showing that while initially the army claimed it had 80% and 50% success rate and was later scaled down, even the scaled down numbers were inaccurate. This is one time congress actually followed up and looked at what the money was spent on, and they discovered that the patriot missles weren't successful very much of the time. So while there were claims that the patriot system was a success they were later found to be inaccurate.
Hey! I've got an idea! Let's let the country that hasn't ever been hypocritical run the U.N. Any takers.... Any?
No Worries Again i dont understand where you get your info...but there is a difference in hating the U.S and supporting the "Mullahs".... it does have to be one with the other... i don't know how you make the connection.... there are loads of non-muslim citizens in other countries who hate the U.S.... that does not mean they are mullah supporters.... just because Pakistan is a Muslim country does not mean they support the mullahs..... if you have ever been there recently they are actually adopting a very "western" outlook to their everyday lifestyle.... i went there with some pakistani friends last summer.... its nothing like how the media has perceived it to be... it is bad in the poor areas... the uneducated people are usually supportive of the mullahs.... in the middle and upper class (educated) there is no support for the mullah's.... however hating on the U.S is another point all together.....so i don't see how you point makes sense.
The Gulf war was the first time the Patriots were used widely in combat, they were asked to do something the targeting algorithms weren't designed for.This is akin to taking a new 4wd Porsche off the showroom floor and driving the Paris Dakar rally. I don't dispute they failed to intercept the Scuds, but 3 billion dollars and a decade of upgrades to said targeting algorhythems and radar controls can make more than a little difference. Tou don't mention that 14 cruise missiles were fired in the new gulf war. 5 were not fired upon b/c they were not deemed threats while the other 9 were intercepted. 7 of those by the upgraded Pac-2 missiles that will be going to India. Further, you ignore the traditional mission of the Patriot, which is to intercept aircraft where it has no equal. The presence of the Patriots was credited with keeping Israel out of the war after it was barraged with 39 Scuds in 1991. Whether they hit the Scuds or not, they were successful in their mission. Also, do you think that Isreal, having seen the Patriots in action would deploy them knowing they don't work when it's their asses on the line? The work done to upgrade the Patriot by the U.S. and Isreal led to the development of the Arrow, which is designed to intercept at higher altitudes and is complementary to the Patriot. BTW modified Porshes won the Paris Dakar rally in 86
Doesn't the Indian Air Force have the highest accident rate in the world? They lose 20 planes a year and usually kill a bunch of people on the ground. Bhutan would probably give them a run for their money.
