I think I was unclear. I was saying that the Japanese were doing all of that stuff while the war was on. But the the Japanese were trying to end the war. The Govt. knew they were going to lose, and wanted to surrender prior to the H-Bombs being dropped. I was never trying to say that the Japanese weren't doing horrible things.
If it's nothing that you would say to me face to face publicly, why would you say it on a message board? If you really feel this way Email me... mikecurtis20032003@yahoo.com we can discuss this in person.
Ferguson adds acts of genocide to the list (Cambodian, Ethiopian, N. Korean) that are direct causes from Cold War plays. Then there are the smaller proxy wars riddled across Africa and Latin America such as Angola or Guatemala. I've gotten myself into a abstract poker game. I'll give you numbers when I have more adequate time. This thread won't be going anywhere. My point is whether you'd support using it again under the same conditions as a counter attack.
the alternative plan would have been a massive bombing campaign that would have lasted months. then the allies would have landed on the main island. im sure the govenment would have convinced their civilian population to fight to the death. so the allies would have had to basically kill every japanese person. so on top of wiping every japanese off the face of this earth, the allies would have had massive casualties also... this doesnt sound like a good plan.
What? I'd tell you anything face to face. But if I were to insult you in that situation, by golly, you would know my name. Personally, I think it's cheap to insult then run behind a moniker. So, I offer my name. Maybe that doesn't make a difference to you, but it serves me well. "in person": does that mean over a beer or are you just flexing some internet muscle?
This is getting a little ridiculous. I see a lot of people questioning R3FL2's age (28, according to his profile), and his education on WWII. I see a lot of people saying he wouldn't say such things if he knew better. But, I don't see many people actually rebutting instead of dismissing. If this thread is going to go on for 5 pages, you may as well put the effort in to "educate" someone.
I would support it again. I think the unknowns of full deployment to the pacific theater with the island-hopping strategy is scary. Yeah I am not demanding numbers from you instantly (or ever) really you can just look over the list, most of the african conflicts that are large losses of life, are really not geopolitcal struggles but warlords and starvation.
why? he is making outlandish claims and not listening to the attempts. I asked for his alternative to get no reply. I don't think many people here aspire to be teachers of people who tell you you are wrong and uncaring.
I don't see him telling anyone what his alternative would have been, like he's been asked to do several times.
i think many of the posters have stated facts about japanese actions during ww2 to help drive the point that the use of the bombs were justified. although we cant know for certain whether or not japan would have surrendered w/o the bomb, after 1st bomb, or after initial invasion, going off of the allies experience up until that point, they made the right decidion. although the loss of life was shocking, looking in retrospect, i still believe the allies made the right decision because... 1. tenacious defense displayed by the japanese 2. fanatical support by civilian population 3. casualty estimates 4. allies wanted to end the war as soon as possible 5. preserve as much life as possible
My dad's story is relative because decisions like dropping atomic bombs are made in real time and in the context of the current public sentiment. Americans, Chinese, Dutch, Russian, English and Filipino citizens in 1945 didn't give a damn how many Japanese babies died if it put a final end to Japanese aggression. Japan as a nation was responsible for the rape, torture, enslavement and brutal subjugation of millions of innocent citizens. There was no lessor evil available to end the influence of the Japanese Army. To bring the subject up to examine it 50 years later misses the depth of the emotion present in the decision. To imply in any way that a world war against an agressor nation has any relationship to the decisions made by the current US government would be ludicrous. Why Hiroshima? Hiroshima was chosen as the primary target since it had remained largely untouched by bombing raids, and the bomb's effects could be clearly measured. While President Truman had hoped for a purely military target, some advisers believed that bombing an urban area might break the fighting will of the Japanese people. Hiroshima was a major port and a military headquarters, and therefore a strategic target. Also, visual bombing, rather than radar, would be used so that photographs of the damage could be taken. Since Hiroshima had not been seriously harmed by bombing raids, these photographs could present a fairly clear picture of the bomb's damage. http://www.hiroshima-remembered.com/history/hiroshima/page4.html His feelings were understandable because he witnessed unspeakable atrocities at the hands of Japanese soldiers and had friends killed right next to him. How peace is ever acheived after war is beyond me. When I was a little boy, I used to say in my prayers "God bless everyone, cept' Japs" I harbor no ill will as an adult.
The entire rest of the world? I guess I have to change my mind now. It's halfbreed vs. The Entire Rest of the World.
coward? at that point, i think it has gone way beyond being coward or not. people want peace. just imagine that everyone you know are dead, no food, no shelter, sick. how can anyone think about anything other than peace at that time? people should imagine how ****ed up the wars are. any way that would end the war quicker is the best way to go.
really? i would like to see some documentation of that. not trying to be combative but i have never heard that before.
Yes, it's amazing the lengths he will go to in order to defend Jeremiah Wright. It's unreal. Wright is a RACIST, BIGOT, ANTI-AMERICAN, ANGRY, IGNORANT man who is borderline insane. No proud American can defend him. Of course then again, I thought no one could defend OJ Simpson, and cheer his actions, but obviously I was proven wrong.
These are the same people who prefer to be living under Nazi domination and probably would have been exterminated while being replaced by a perfect German. Or, a slave under Japanese Imperialism had they succeeded. Or, they wanted to see several million more Allies die trying to take down Japan...because it is less cowardly to take them down in man-to-man armed combat. With all due respect, anyone who claims to speak for "the rest of the entire world" needs their head examined.
Is the general premise of this thread that the US is the moral equivalent of Al Qaeda? That's just disgusting. Highly offensive. HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. Why are Obama suppoters not proud of America? Why is that? Not only are they not proud, but they dare go so far as compare it to Al Qaeda. It's unreal.
