U.S. ambassador, 3 American diplomats killed by protesters in Libya

Now we see the benefits that China gets by blocking the youtube.
30 million Muslims in China do not even know the video or something nasty gonna happen.........remember their last 'peaceful' protest killed 200 and injured 2000. .

 

Also the PRC cracks down a lot harder on protests than many countries.

 

So you think storming embassies is something to be proud of?

 

maybe they were also using the wrong map.

 

Ok, I'm not going to argue this with you unless you're willing to differentiate between the protestors and the terrorists/criminals/murderers.

FWIW, I specifically used the words this does not excuse the crimes in an earlier post here.

This is difficult to ascertain. What's too much? When do you consider that this wallowing has defined a society? Have you considered that this is the impression you get because this is the impression that the media tends to report?

IMO it would be a mistake for Egyptians to forget what has been done to them in the past and ignore what is still being done to them today.

As for Native Americans, we'll have to agree to disagree there. Yes there are many things which they inflict on themselves today which isolates them from mainstream American society.

You see that kind of development was never the issue. Like I said, they were economically developing fine when Mubarak was in power. He conceded reforms. What you're describing takes time and it takes a good plan. That plan does not necessarily have to approve excessive foreign influence. It does not have to be approved by the global community, it just has to be one which does not harm anyone in the global community.

The issue with Egypt is that Egyptians do not necessarily want to partake in "Free Trade". Not design its diplomatic relations around American or Russian diplomatic relations. Not believe in capitalism/socialism. Not believe in the current treaty with Israel. That kind of stuff.

If these things are acceptable to the leaders of the "global" community, then that's excellent. But they are usually not. The global community is usually not the global community. The United Nations is not the United Nations. The WTO and IMF are not working on behalf of the world or the international community.

These are considerations that need to be made, despite the turbulent times. Terrorists are trying to hijack this. Politicians are trying to squeeze in. Morsi is trying to build an Islamic country which only his Muslim Brotherhood brethren believe in.

Still Morsi has opened his arms to everything you are preaching, so I'm not sure what you're calling "wallowing in victimization".

By independently, I did not mean disconnect from the world. By independently, I meant the government make decisions by its people for its people. Like you do. Like 100's of countries don't do.

Well maybe Egypt needs to fail before succeeding. Maybe they'll succeed before they fail. But that development doesn't seem to be worth it. I want to point out that every country you've pointed out thus far is excessively filled with impoverished people while maintaining shiny numbers for Goldman Sachs, a corrupt political elite and almost imminent revolt from the youth.

Indonesia has been without Soharto for 14 years. Mubarak left last year.

I would be horrified if Indonesia was the model frankly. You said that this is about a better life for everyone, better education, better employment and not just better economic development. Indonesia should be doing far better, and over the last 14 years should have accelerated to the top faster. It's one of the most gifted countries in the world with great natural advantages and a humongous population.

Terrible labor market - most have horrendous jobs, unemployment is routinely higher than they anticipate. I'm sure Indonesia is on an excellent path, but that's more because of it's natural + human resources than because of anything else.

Indonesians absolutely do blame their problems on the US and Soharto, and they still do. There are protests going on as we speak. They know that their debts are being paid back to a US front organization, after the US strongman stole almost a quarter of the loans. Of course the media will report this as a reaction to a video, but the reality is different on the ground. They rank 124 out of roughly 180 countries on human development index. There are massive human rights issues. There is religious violence. Minimum wage is what $100 a month I think?

What exactly do you see in Indonesia? Are Egyptians supposed to transform into the most menial factory with the worst conditions in the world so that the global community will be willing to invest in its 5-6% growth?

I think the idea is they would rather take their time and end up long term with an economy like Germany's. Will take time. For 99.9% of the population, there is nothing to lose, almost literally.

Yes, it would be good for us (believe me would be good for my country too). But that's really their business.

No it is driven by terrorists and extremists. What you describe is no different than the Republican party plus a dash of education and a buttload of assets to lose.

Frankly it's for the same reasons some Egyptians behave that way towards Copts that some Americans behave towards Muslims, that many Germans behave towards immigrants, etc. You can chalk that up to what you believe, but I can't see the uniqueness of this.

Not at all. Egypt should become part of the global economy, develop civil societies, and develop the economy. I believe that the huge majority of Egyptians want this. But they want to do this based on their own principles.

You seem to be concurring with me that airing your grievances loudly and becoming succesful is not mutually exclusive, as with the PRC.

I hope that they develop all those things and more. I think they want to develop all those things and more.

I think Morsi will destroy the country frankly. I think he has hijacked this revolution and leading Egyptians to ideological warfare, but he is playing chess right now. I think he will be deposed. I think Egyptians are recognizing Morsi's actions as identical to Mubarak's actions early on. I can certainly see the resemblance.

The victimhood will not go away. The scars are deep, and the knife is still not removed. I know Arabs. They are still fighting about why the Imam Ali was not the first Caliph - this happens everyday in 2012. American wounds are relatively fresh. I don't blame them though, it's all over. You make a lot of progress, but every dead end you do hit occassionally is an American flag. The story of Islam tells them the plan: defeat the local oppressor, unite the colonies, then defeat the bigger oppressor, then follows decades of prosperity.

To put it very simply, they want to be America. How can you blame them for following in your footsteps?

 

Many of you in this thread sound so sympathetic to these rioters/scumbags who are killing our people in the Middle East. But you are the same fools who are so bitter at and upset over the rioters who flip over a few cars in China. Unbelievable.

Your hypocrisy makes me want to puke.

 

No, I just showed you were talking out of your ass. After some research, turns out you were reaching really deep.

In fact you are the one who should, in addition to being embarrased, be explaining why you were chiding Muslims for not storming embassies while appearing proud that it happened in Berlin or wherever.

 

Not sure who you are referring to but you appear to be sympathetic to the vandals in China... Seems a little hypocritical

 

It was a peaceful demonstration. No violence. I passed by it today. I'm not surprised you would not understand that peaceful demonstrations are possible.

 

Who? Those people who are up in their arms to denounce the rioters who flip over cars but choose to keep their mouth shut about the crime of the rioters who are killing our own people in the Middle East. If you are more angry about people flipping over cars than killing people, you are either a dumbass or a hypocrite. It's just as simple as that. I have to say you are hypocritical to speak up for the hypocrites.

 

Would you prefer they not be armed by blacks?

 

Typical strawman argument... Who is saying what is happening in China is worse than what is happening in the Muslim world? Your only "proof" from what I can gather is some posters posted in the China thread but not in this one? Your previous post did seem to downplay what is happening in China though... That is what seemed hypocritical to me ("flipping over a few cars" is not an accurate representation of what has happened in China)

 

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/emptychairambassador.png

 

Much bigger story than gaffegate:

http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/17/...-the-administrations-benghazi-story-unravels/

--
An intelligence source on the ground in Libya told Fox News that there was no demonstration outside the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi prior to last week’s attack — challenging the Obama administration’s claims that the assault grew out of a “spontaneous” protest against an anti-Islam film.

“There was no protest and the attacks were not spontaneous,” the source said, adding the attack “was planned and had nothing to do with the movie.”

The source said the assault came with no warning at about 9:35 p.m. local time, and included fire from more than two locations. The assault included RPG’s and mortar fire, the source said, and consisted of two waves.

The account that the attack started suddenly backs up claims by a purported Libyan security guard who told McClatchy Newspapers late last week that the area was quiet before the attack.

“There wasn’t a single ant outside,” the unnamed guard, who was being treated in a hospital, said in the interview.

 

Yugoslavia was a great country when Tito was around. My people over there are a bunch of nationalist brain dead idiots now. It's very sad to see what happened. I have a family with many mixed marriages (Croats and Serbs) and we all get along but there's always that one *******

 

good questions from VDH:

Why did we even have a consulate in a secondary port city, when most countries had pulled their embassies out of Tripoli? Why, on the night of his death, was our ambassador meeting with a Turkish diplomat in Benghazi? Who delayed our team at the airport — and why? Why was an annex, with a large CIA contingent, even nearby? Why did the annex people apparently want to keep a firewall between themselves and the consulate? Who actually were the terrorists? Who paid them and what exactly was their mission? Were we destroying the Gaddafi arsenal, or rounding it up for anonymous resale? And if so — to whom?

http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/anatomies-of-electoral-madness/

 

basso, what happened on Tuesday night? How could you have been so horribly, massively, stupendously in error? Has this caused you to question your sources for information? If not, why not? Do you enjoy being a rube?

 

These are excellent questions. Too bad you've just been focused instead on a nonsensical partisan witchhunt of "did Obama call it a terrorist attack on day 2?!!?!?! CONSPIRACY!"