By that argument, the NBA owes the Rockets money because Michael Finley was out of bounds when he touched the ball in the playoffs two years ago. Who knows what could have happened after that. We could've won it all and any thing we didn't earn after that (including merchandise and increased ticket sales) should be either given to us or we should be allowed an advantage every time we play in the playoffs from now on.
A white person wh doesn't get anything handed to him will still benefit from the fact that he's white in most situations IMO. He might get a second look for a job where a minority might not, he might get promoted a little faster, he might get a slightly higher starting salary. These are all things which would benefit him regardless of whether or not he had things handed to him. And knowing all this, I still waver on affirmative action. I can see both sides of it, it's hard for me to take a stance that I am firmly in favor of.
My problem with your statement was You came on here . .and said minorities should be pissed because everyone thinks they got the position because of skin color affirm action or something and that you would not want that but then you get pissed when I said . . basically used the exact same argument about white people You said. . I don't speak for all minorities however you did not seem have a problem speaking for all those other people that you seem to think view minorities that way Why is it ok for you to throw out such a blanket statement yet the exact same thing said about your position . . pisses you off? Rocket River
losing an NBA game on a bad call by a ref does not equate to being srewed out of a job and not being able to provide for your children who are then placed at a disadvantage compared with other kids.
Give me a break. My grandparents came over from Mexico with less than 10 dollars in their pockets and speaking only Spanish. They are now part of the middle class, retired, and living the American dream. If they were able to do it, someone who was born in this country speaking the language shouldn't have that much of a problem regardless of what happened in the past.
Where did I say most people? You need to work on your reading comprehension. There are some people that look at some as though they only get into school because of affirmative action just like I am sure there are some people that look at white person and think they only got there because of their skin color (apparently you). I challenge you to show me where I said most people think that way.
I didn't say it was a 1-to-1 comparison but the logic is the same. The position states that because something happened in the past, people in the present are owed something due to the lost opportunities of others. My position is that all the time spent crying about it could be used to work toward achieving your goal.
Exactly and I couldn't agree more ... you are now talking about a class of people (poor and disadvantaged) that deserve to get a break, not a race.
which if you read my post, also says that I don't believe in reparations but that I do see the validity of some of their points. Affirmative action is a toug subject for some people to reallyd ecide where their heart lies. I know plenty of minorities who are against it until they suddenyl find themselves being overlooked or not even hired in favor of a white guy. By contrast, I also know plenty of white guys who think minorities should get a break until they suddenly get scrwed out of a job or a promotion or whatever in favor of company or school's desire to get more "diverse".
Affirmative Action to me is based on several things 1. History - we all are where we are based on familiar history. The major question is . . How do you correct a historical wrong? 2. Competition - Everyone wants an edge. In this country white people have historical always had an edge. Through Law, familiarity or custom. 3. Results - when it is your family. You generally would rather be considered getting that edge than them starving. If you got an 'unearned' edge by virtue of nothing more that your phenotype. . .for better or ill . .one does not want to give it up. That IMo is capitalistic. When are on the wrong side of that edge. You not happy. Affirmative Action is one of the 1st times in american history where the Edge is not in the favor of White Males SO! My great oponents of Affirmative Action: how do you correct a historical wrong? Do you ignore it and act like it did not happen? Just tell those people. . TOUGH . .get over it .. you and your ancestors got screwed and because of it you will continue to get screwed because of it but . .well that is just the way it is. We can stick out heads in the sand and act the historical issues of yesterday do not affect today but that does mean it is so. Rocket River
Your grandparents came over barely speaking english How many of your Grandparents were Lynched and intimidated by the Local Klansmen? How were you grandparents affected by the Jim Crowe laws? I am just curious Rocket River
2 Wrongs do not make a right. By this belief, there will be lots of minorities who get an edge that do not deserve it because they were not part of the "historical wrong" or they are well to do already and it penalizes many whites who do not deserve it because they were not part of the "historical wrong" either. To be honest, I see waaaaayyyy more gender bias right now towards males in the workplace than I see racism. That is why I believe you can only right the wrongs of today. To me the thing that is wrong today is that kids in lower income areas do not get anywhere near the quality education of those in the middle and upper class. Just compare the number of available AP classes in a lower income area to the middle and upper income areas. That is just one example of the differences. That is where we should correct the problem and it has nothing to do with race. On top of that, if someone's family is still being held down because of a historical wrong, then they would be lifted up as well.
Since you are the one that feels they have been wronged, what do you think is an appropriate course of action that is fair to everyone involved? Just remember that every type of person has had some sort of historical wrong. Every race, color, and creed has had some sort of oppression in their past. I've given you my opinion and obviously equality on all fronts and hard work is wrong. Please enlighten us as to what is the right way.
Blacks aren't the only minority to ever be persecuted. Get over yourself. My grandparents grew up in segregated communities also. They endured just as many hardships and suffered the same amount of intimidation. The only difference is they didn't whine about it.
I see your point here, but we both know that no policy will ever be put into place that gives any minority or poor person an advantage over people this rich. They are only given opportunities ahead of middle class types if at all.
That is historically not accurate. While all minorities have faced discrimination, and prejudice in the U.S., from the very beginning it was different than what was faced from blacks, including the method of how they came to nation.
I disagree with you saying that most whites benefit from this kind of thing. For example, I am in a field (astrophysics*) where almost EVERY American person is white. You are making the false assumption that when going for a job interview, it always comes down to a white guy versus a minority. *I remember reading in an autobiography by Neil deGrasse Tyson that when he received his Ph.D in astronomy, he was one of only like six black astrophysicists in the world.
This is a serious question because I do not know the answer. How are Jews in present day Germany treated? Do they have any type of AA there or special rights or whatever?
The entire thread is devoted to situations where you have a black person competing with a white person for something.
when did I say Hard work is wrong? since you asked: I prefer a multipronged appraoch Educational system needs to be Fully revamped. Teachers need an increase in pay and respect - No slight against teachers but I think a bump in pay and respect will increase the quality of teachers [I know it sounds bad . . i mean no disrespect] Stop teaching to a test and start teaching - how about we let teachers teach and let politicians do something else I think basic Education is a must. I think we need to allow teachers more autonomy and authority. They need to take the schools back from the Students Personally . . I think college should be fully funded. Revamp the welfare system some families are trapped in it. Low income houses are in areas with poor schools Some folx cannot [or feel they cannot] get jobs because it is economical stupid do do so If you on Section 8 and getting a check and food stamps Why take a job that won't pay your regular rent, put your kids in day care and pay your busfare to work. Not to mention cleaning clothing etc This system needs to make it so once you get a job you are weaned off the welfare. . or at lease supplement your income until you reach a point of self sufficiency. I would not be against some sort of transportaton system and daycare Discrimination - make it a major crime if a corp is found guilty of it. . .treat it like insider trading MAKE HEADS ROLL make sure everyone knows the sh*t will not be tolerated AT ALL force corporations to be fair to everyone . . no matter what It think the gaps in our society will start to even out their are other tweaks and things to be done but as I am sure some one is scream. . this is far too socialist and Keep government out of my life blah blah blah turning education over to the private sector will be a huge mistake IMO Rocket RIver not very race specific . . . .but you did not ask me for a race specific situation
