Question: SINCE 1907 - Let's say in the last 100 years alone WHICH HAS HAPPENED MORE OFTEN The white person got the job over the more qualified Minority or the Minority got the job over the more qualified White person? The white person got Favored position over the Minority or the Minority got the favored position over the white person? The white person got the position over the EQUALLY qualified Minority or the minority got the position over the EQUALLY qualified Minority? Over the last century . . last 100 year which of these happened more often than not and If you are honest. . which still happens more often than not? Rocket River
Well, here's a parent that doesn't want to stack the deck in favor of my kid. I want my kid to have a good education, but you know what, I want poor kids to have a good education too. I want my daughter to have the opportunity to fulfill her potential. And you know what, I want poor kids to have the same opportunity to fulfill their potential. If that means (and it does) that more resources need to be allocated for their education, or that programs need to be in place that facilitate their access to higher education, then I have no problem with that. In fact, I support it enthusiastically. My daughter was lucky enough to be born into a stable middle class family that supports her academically, so she is pretty much guaranteed that her only limits will be self imposed. I want to live in a country where poor kids are also limited only by their intellect and effort, not by their circumstance.
Why does what happened in 1907 matter? Shouldn't we be trying to deal with what's happening today and not trying to rectify something that happened 100 years ago?
I think the argument is that the evens that happen today are affected by what went on 100 years ago. If a black man was able to get a good job 100 years ago, he would have been able to pass down his wealth to his next generation who could have built on it and 100 years later, they wouldn't be in this situation. I'm not personally a fan of this since I don't agree with the whole reparations thing, but it has its valid points.
The question is how long does this process need to be, would they still be talking about this two hundred years from now?
some folx obviously think just because I killed your mom yesterday it should not matter today because it is in the past and the past does not affect the present in any way form or fashion ALSO Even if we just took today If you took a poll . .. with all the affirmative action Minority still feel that 9 times out of 10 in non-afrimative action situations the white guy gets the job over the Minority regardless of qualification It is a generall concensus . .all things being equal . .the white guy gets the job Even if the Minority is more qualified. . .the White guy gets the job Look at the coaching highering last year in the NFL 8 out of 9 went to white guys some with an average of less than 5 yrs experiece while for years black coaches were told they lacked experience it is life While Af Am gets alot of Pub [for a reason] it is generally contrary to the norm If it comes down the White guy or the minority TO THIS DAY 8 times out of 10 . .the white guy will get the job/position/favorable outcome Rocket River
I am not at all saying that poor kids should not have a quality education. I want better schools for ALL kids. Hell, in Texas, even the good public schools suck. What I am saying is that a less qualified kid should not get the nod over someone that is more qualified just because they come from poverty. Sorry, I don't support that one bit. However, if the kids are equally qualified and they go with the kid that comes from a poor background, I have ZERO problem with that.
Do you honestly feel that jobs/college spots should go to less qualified applicants just for simple fact that they are a minority? Wouldn't that kind of piss you off as a human being that you are catching a break just because of the color of your skin? Wouldn't you feel that it is patronizing to get a pat on the head even though you didn't earn it? Do you have anything to back up your 90% and 80% claims? Even if for some reason you could come up with some sort of documentation for your claims, what do you suggest as a remedy for this problem? Personally, I want to earn what I get. I want my kids to earn what they deserve. If there is something that I want or a goal I want to acheive, I want to put in the work necessary to accomplish that and know that I earned it. Don't you think that teaching someone (minority or not) this would be much more beneficial than saying, "Hey, lets give you this even though you really don't deserve it." I absolutely know that racism exists. It always has and always will but I don't think that trying to give something to someone that they don't deserve is going to make that better. I'm not a minority and maybe I'm talking out of my ass but if I were, I'd use that bias as a motivator. I'd do everything that I could to make sure I was better than the other guy so that there was no other choice other than to choose me for whatever it is that I wanted. I'd teach my kids that while not fair, they have to work that much harder to get what they want. I'd never teach them that they deserve or are owed anything just because they are a minority.
I think affirmative action is way more racist against minorities than it is whites to be honest. If I was a minority and I worked my ass off, I'd be pissed that people were looking at me as though I only got in because of affirmative action. As a white person, with hard work there are still plenty of opportunities for me so Affirmative Action doesn't negatively impact me that much. However Affirmative Action does 2 things bad for minorities ... 1) Wrongly diminishes the accomplishments of well-deserving minorities 2) Sets lower expectations for someone, and to me there is nothing more demeaning than that.
EARN? Did GW Bush *earn* his presidency or was it the product of the work how his Grandfather and Father Who had opportunities that my grandfather and father did not have? What did Paris Hilton *earn*? While the EARN and DESERVE thing are nice sidebars they are irrelevent the point is people have gotten their position in life in large part based on the work that their forefathers did and because various other people's forefather were BY LAW prevented from doing better it started them in a place that may or may not be overcomable in one life time Is that fair? Is it fair that my greatgrand father could not participate in the political process? The fact is GW bush is not in a position to affect major changes . . whether he EARNED it or not is irrelevent He has the position . . he has the power. . . he can make change While I may want my son to EARN everything it is irrelevent .. because if he gets an unearned position he can make positive change The power and ability to affect change is an end onto itself and EARNING it or not . .is irrelevent I know it SHOULD NOT BE THAT WAY but it is that way Many of people in the halls of power did nothing or next to nothing PERSONALLY to have that power .. . it is the DIRECT result of generations of work . . alot of that work and opportunity that was PROHIBITEd by LAW from various minority Groups We can act like the past down matter we can act like that an UNEARNED POSITION 70 yrs ago is not the reason some folx walk the halls of power to day but the reality is. . ALOT OF UNEARNED and Half EARNED positions have lead alot of the Enpowered and Enriched people into the positions they are today So . . . I really am not concerned with EARNED versus UNEARNED America is a RESULTS oriented system . .whether us EARNED it or not is irrelevent Rocket River *that* is capitalism
Does it piss you off that most minorities think you have an unearned positions? That you only got it because you white? does it stop you from cashing that check? Rocket RIver
You are using EXTREME examples. The VAST majority of the people are not GWB and Paris Hilton and to use them as a benchmark seems awfully silly to me. You go ahead and expect something that you don't deserve and I'll keep busting my ass. You go ahead and keep teaching your kids that they are owed something and I'll keep teaching my kids to work hard and earn what they want but when your kids are still feeling oppressed because they didn't get a hand out, don't have them b**** to mine because they have done something with their lives. Lemons to lemonade, man. You either do something positive or you don't. I'm sorry that as a white person I get tired of hearing people b**** about their situation instead of doing something about it. I don't think you have the first idea about what capitalism is. edit: I know you didn't ask me the question but no, it doesn't piss me off one bit that minorities think that I am where I am today because I'm white. Want to know why? Because I know I worked my ass off. I remember when I didn't have a pot to piss in and needed help from the church for food and diapers. I remember when I thought $10 an hour was a ton of money. I remember staying up night after night after night trying to teach myself networking and then later on windows installer so that I could make a more money. I know all of the late nights and early mornings that I spend doing two jobs so that I can get the checks that I do every month. And I don't have any guilt whatsoever cashing every one of those checks and I couldn't give a **** less if anyone thinks I don't deserve them.
minorities go through the same thing as you did, except some of us think 5 bux an hour is a ton of money. if you don't want to hear about hard luck non whiteys, don't start pontificating (and if I'm misuing the word, then yes I did pwn myself).
I think you are missing his point. His point is that most white people are not handed everything like some here seem to think. If you are a minority and you have hard luck and work your ass off to make something better of yourself, then more power to you. Now if we want to get into a discussion of class discrimiation I'd be more than happy to do that. I believe that coming from a middle class background (black, white, brown, or blue), you have exponentially more opportunity than someone coming from a poor background (due to lower quality schooling and less opportunities from a financial standpoint). Affirmative action (based on class) at the collegiate level is too late to help there though. It's not fair to throw someone who had a sub-par education into the fire at a competitive university. The solution is to improve schooling and other opportunities at a much younger age to prepare these students for college so they will truly be on an equal playing field.
just like in your previous post you spoke for Most People? " If I was a minority and I worked my ass off, I'd be pissed that people were looking at me as though I only got in because of affirmative action. " is this not what you typed? Rocket River
By the same token I don't give a crap that white people think I'm an Affirmative Action hire Rocket River
He spoke as to what he would think. How is that speaking for most people? This is an example of speaking for most people.
