Unfortunately, without the Express, the marketing in central Texas has taken a nosedive. If the caravan came through last season, I never heard about it. And with the team being horrible, 1300 am had no problems preempting games for just about anything else. Even so, the Astros still do an amazing job here when compared to the Texans...who have absolutely no presence anywhere outside of greater Houston.
The larger point is that, I'm guessing, and maybe persumptively, that the vast majority of Texans are much more likely to have a connection to other Texans than they are....... Missourians, for instance. So while you, personally, might not have it, I'm guessing *a lot* of us do. In fact, as I think over my list of friends, I don't know any that don't have a tie to DFW, be it friends or family. Eh.. yeah, a little bit. Again, we could literally be inches from each other and if the Astros are still as irrelevant then as they are now, no rivalry is going to grow. But I can tell you that people here hate Dallas, hate the Cowboys, and hate the Mavericks... the Rangers would join that list absolutely. Why wouldn't they? WE HATE DALLAS!
Still sick to my stomach that we built that palace in RR and now it's in another organization. That's twice that the Astros have screwed themselves cataclysmically with regards to Nolan Ryan. And, in a gut-wrenching irony, this last one may eventually end in (not directly cause, but end in) our Astros getting shoved into the junior circuit and being forced to employ a DH. Memo to next owner: don't screw your iconic players.
Equating the Rangers with the Cowboys and Mavericks feels kinda like equating the HBU football team with the Rockets and Texans. I know it's changing, but it's hard for me to hate on a historically irrelevant comedy of errors like that franchise. Prior to last year, the highlight of their entire existence was Nolie kicking Ventura's ass. And maybe David Clyde's meltdown.
Do the Rays and Marlins have a rivalry of any sort? Baltimore / Washington? Phillies / Pittsburgh? Cinci / Cleveland? The major rivalries all seem to be where there are two cities in the same city, not state. It seems like most rivalries are formed by playoff competition. The Texans don't hate the Cowboys any more than they hate the Titans or how much the Oilers hated the Steelers. Rockets fans don't hate the Mavs any more than they hate the Jazz. And they didn't hate the Mavs at all, despite decades of competition, until they lost a couple of playoff series to them. Losing or winning regular season games is just not going to do it in baseball or basketball. The Astros already have rivals and hated teams. Why wait decades to re-create that when location seems to have very little to do with those rivalries?
Even then, ask any Dodgers fan who their rival is. My guess is that something close to 100% would not say it's the Angels. During the Oilers heydays of the late 80's/early 90's, I hated the Browns and Bengals more than anyone. The Icky Shuffle still makes me throw up in my mouth and Bernie Kosar is the f***ing devil.
Always hated the Steelers, Browns, and Bengals more than the Cowboys, back in the day. The Cowboy hate just kind of festered when the Oilers split and "America's team" was shoved down our throats for 6 or 7 years.
You first need fans to have a rivalry. None of these are relevant, though, because they're not in the same division. Or league, frankly. No one is arguing the Astros/Rangers *currently* have a rivalry. Only that they will once they're in the same division. And given the long-standing hatred between Houston/Dallas, that the rivalry has the potential to be much more heated than, say, Houston and St. Louis. What is this "decades" talk? Granted, it might be decades until the Astros are good again - but it doesn't take time; it takes competition. If the Astros and Rangers are both very good teams in... 5 years, and are in the same division, vying for a division crown, there will be a rivalry.
You must not have been here in the late 70s. I've hated the Cowboys for as long as I can remember, and that '79 Thanksgiving day beat down of them is one of my fondest sports memories.
Oh, I was here. But they were, as you astutely point out, not conference rivals. As such, while I hated them, of course I hated Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh infinitely more.
OK, so let's summarize... You hated the Dallas Cowboys, despite them not being conference rivals - hating division opponents more. So a division opponent *in* Dallas (assuming everyone is good simultaneously) draws yawns from you because..................?
Philly & Pitt are in the same league. The Cowboys example doesn't work well at all because the Cowboys are a national team - everyone hates them, just like everyone hates the Yankees. The Mavs are a much better comparison. The Jazz were bigger rivals for the Rockets than the Mavs until the Mavs got really good and knocked us out of the playoffs. And even then, if the Mavs suck again and the Lakers are good and knocking us out, it will be the Lakers that are the big rivals. Location, unless the fans are in the same city, is pretty much irrelevant. It takes time - they have to be good at the same time, and they probably have to face each other in the playoffs and knock each other out, preferably a couple of times. And even then, the rivalry would be no more powerful than it was against the Braves or the Cardinals, who we already have that relationship with. The odds of even facing each other in the playoffs is low because it can only happen if both teams make the playoffs AND win their first series. To clarify, though, my reference to decades was in a general sense - it took 40 years to get to the point in the NL where the Astros have the rivals they have. It will likely take that long to do it again starting over. And the new rival is just as likely to be the Anaheim Angels or any other team as it is the Texas Rangers. It will be based on who the Astros end up competing with, rather than whoever happens to be nearby them.
.....because I'll be gaining one junior, contrived "rival" who's been relevant for all of 5 minutes, while losing others I have fifty years of history with. My God, when you belittle someone's takes it sometimes is hard to tell whether you just feel infinitely smarter than them or whether you're simply too dense to grasp where others are coming from. I assume, of course, that neither of those are true, but I wonder why it seems so difficult for you to engage conflicting opinions with understanding and regard?
...and I think Major has hit the nail squarely on the head. This is an NL town. If you don't believe that, I respect your opinion. But this is an NL town regardless.
And the Pirates are terrible. Have been for some 20-years. A national team? That makes no sense. And are you suggesting the level of hatred here in Houston for the Yankees is equal to the level of hatred for the Cowboys? Yes, I know. Again, no one is suggesting location alone creates a rivalry. Competition does; I've said this repeatedly. This isn't a random "location;" this is Dallas. Having said that, as already mentioned - it will still require both teams to be good for the rivarly to develop. Allow me to quote you: "The Jazz were bigger rivals for the Rockets than the Mavs until the Mavs got really good and knocked us out of the playoffs." It took one playoff for the Mavs to supplant the long-time Jazz as rivals - that's what you said, right? But with the Astros/Ranegrs, it'll take mutliple playoffs? Why do you think the Maverick/Rocket rivalry sparked so quickly? Hmmmmmm..... I think you're setting up a fictious set of circumstances that fit your perspective. There's no rule for this, other than competition. How long it takes, etc., is completely arbitrary. But throw a gaggle of obnoxious, Johnny-come-lately-Cowboy fans who just discovered baseball existed last year into the mix and... I'm guessing you've got a pretty potent receipe. So we hate the city in general; really hate their football team; hate their basketball team (any mark Cuban supporters here? No?) but you think a healthy rivalry with their baseball team will be just like our rivalry with the Braves? Agree to disagree. The seeds are planted for something far more toxic. Again, no one here is making this argument.
Have you not been paying attention? They are constantly referred to as the "Evil Empire", the "Yankmees", etc. There is *plenty* of Yankee hate to go around here.
msn........... on the same level as the Cowboys? Are you *really* going to argue that? Sure, I *hate* the Yankees... about 1/1,000,000th as much as I hate the Cowboys. I revel in Cowboy defeat nearly as much as I revel in Texan wins. I couldn't even tell you when or who the Yankees are playing 99.999999% of the time. Where is this revisionist, "Dallas is alright, brah!" crap coming from? We hate Dallas: it's a Houston birthright. We hate the city, we hate its people, the fans, its teams...... I get that you don't want to go to the AL......... but I will not stand for proud Houston sports fans in any way, shape or form pretending Dallas isn't atop our enemy list permanently. That's just all kinds of crazeeeee.
Where the heck is MadfreakingMax?!?! This is insane! People are actually trying to talk themselves into believing Dallas is some unobjectionable, milquetoast mecca of reasonable people with no egos or unwarranted sense of self-worth and I refuse to believe I'm alone in this stand! COME ON! (turns over a table; throws chair against the wall.)
