Two weird misconceptions about Bosh and NBA player acquisition

Well we were able to build a pretty good team with two guys taking like 70% of our total cap, so I think its a step in the right direction :grin:

I think we can agree to trust Morey to make the right decision. If he thinks going after Bosh makes sense, then by golly I say do it.

Yes, I just said by golly, want to fight about it?

 

A franchise player is just "the best player on a team" for marketing etc. He is a face of the team, so you can put his name on any ads. S. Francis used to be a franchise player, so did B. Davis because they were the best players on their teams. You do not need to be a player as good as Kobe to be a franchise player.

 

I completely agree with you DD. I think we really learned our lesson through the Utah playoff series with Yao and Tracy healthy. You need good depth to win in this league. Teams that give out max contracts have a hard time accumulating depth while staying under the cap. If we have a player making 40% of our cap space, I damn well expect him to be scoring 40 points and pull down 15 rebounds a night. What do you say? Bosh can't do that? But paying two players that money can? The whole point of Morey's philosophy is maxing out dollars on a contract. You giving out twice Luis Scola money to Bosh without getting twice the production from him is completely absurd. I dont care if Lebron is worth 50 million. The max is 20 million and everyone else's salary should be scaled down by their value according to that because you are still limited by the salary cap. The mindset that you should pay guy max money without them being top 5 players is what got a whole lot of teams in financial trouble in the late 90's and 00's. See Jermaine O'neal, Steve Francis, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, Michael Redd, Andrei Kirelinko, Zach Randolph, Kenyon Martin, Peja Stojakovic, Elton Brand, Tracy McGrady.

 

Question:


Can a sign and trade be completed on draft night? Would make June 24th that much more interesting.

 

And I'm completely tired of the assumption that Morey can:

A. Find a replacement for Aaron Brooks really easily. Umm have y'all not been watching Rockets basketball the lat 15-20 years? Finding a good point guard is hard.
B. Morey can replace anyone that has produced through the draft. The NBA draft is a big crapshoot. Nothing is guaranteed.

 

The problem with that assesment is that the GM that was currently putting together the roster at those times was NOT able to find cheap talent to build around those two max contract players.

I know they've went over the Lux Tax but look at the Celtics, they got rid of all their youngs with still being able to keep important cheap talent peices such as Rondo, Kendrick Perkins, Eddie House, etc. with them and the signing of Posey, those guys were molded into a championship team.

Now the same can possibly be done in Houston with our version of a possible Big Three in Yao, Bosh, and Martin with good to great role players in Scola, Brooks, Hayes, and Ariza.

The biggest variable in building around players is the players you recieve thru the draft and free agency, we know now that these players will be max product for small contracts.

 

Agreed on the Celtics, but they were built for 1 year, and since then have been in serious decline and looking like they will suck for a long time....which is ok with me.

But the difference is that they had the benefit of a higher cap, and a soft cap, if it goes to a hard cap, and lower, having one guy making 40% of your cap could be a killer.

DD

 

What is all the fuss about? Bosh didn't make the first three All NBA teams, certainly not a franchise player but the next level.

 

Please. Utilize the enter key. paragraphs are great.

Are you suggesting that if Bosh comes over, we will have no depth? I agree teams do have that problem, but what if you assemble that depth and then add the big contract? We didn't do much this season, but we do have a laundry list of assets.

Oh, and a GM who is a damn good at drafting paired with the RGV.

 

I don't believe Yao and McGrady's contracts were the biggest reason that we were not getting quality players 4-5 years ago. I believe that our biggest failures were the draft picks and the MLE spendings.

Stromile Swift + the numerous picks that were completely wasted was the main reason that we could not seem to get any decent players. Morey was able to put good players around the contracts even up until now.

 

Last year, the lakers won the championship with Odom, their bench PF, making $14 million. That's nearly as much as Yao makes. Jerry Buss has historically avoided the luxury tax like the plague. He jumped into luxury tax hell with the Gasol trade because he thought it was worth it.

Big contracts don't necessarily prevent you from building a good team. Getting Bosh without gutting the core would definitely be worth it. He's the best possible return for our assets. Anyone thinking otherwise should explain what Morey should do. Simply re-sign Lowry and Scola and roll with what we've got?

 

He might not be the right deal for the Rockets, but he's the most realistic option. I can't think of a better player that doesn't fall into the pipe dream category. It all depends, I guess, on how patient you want to be. It could be a year or more before another guy with Bosh's talent becomes available for an affordable price.

 

I think it will be interesting too see what type of deal, money-wise, Bosh is looking for. Maybe Morey talks to him on July 1st and gets him to take less than max to get the deal done with us. Maybe the possibility of being a contender for the next 5 years will be enough to take a little less than max to keep the supporting cast around him. He would really be negotiating his contract with us since we would be paying it after the trade.

This is going to be a interesting summer. I feel like this is 'the summer' where we are finally the team making the noise going into next year. T-Mac is gone, finally have a good SG, good young talent to watch develop in summer league.... we are on the rise!

 

If Morey even mentions taking less than the Max he will be greeted with a door slam and a laugh. A contender? The Bulls with Bosh are a closer guaranteed contender than we are.

The Max money and the extra from the S&T will be our only leverage to nab Bosh since there is no way of knowing Yao will even be able to play at a good level. It's safe to say that If Bosh picks us we're lucky and we should hope to God that Yao comes back to play at least 25 minutes per game.

 

Exactly, and what can you get that is good for the team for $20 million dollars?

Can you get more production out of Scola and Hill for less, and leave yourself some room for a quality center?

That is how I am viewing it.

DD

 

Stop smoking dude!!!

 

The NBA may not have a "hard cap" but despite all of the exceptions (larry bird exception, etc...) there is a finite amount of money that can be spent on a team's roster....i.e. a salary cap. Most of these rules didn't apply when Jordan was making $30 million a season.

The most critical component to developing a marquee roster is getting good VALUE for your players, and NOT overpaying. Most championship teams do this by either having a superstar that is worth more than the max. salary they are being paid (Kobe, Lebron) or by aquiring players through the draft, with relatively underpaid initial contracts (Duncan/Ginobli/Parker, Lebron, Durant).

Morey understands this.... Every dollar you overpay a player is a dollar you could have spent on someone else. Large contracts to mediocre players kill franchises... that being said I am still up in the air about Bosh.

 

The bulls would have to give up someone like Deng and others to get Bosh in a S&T. Still think they would be a contender with just Rose, Bosh, Noah and some filler? Would never get passed Orlando, Cleveland, and Boston in the East with that team.

I guess we will see what happens in July. We already have good pieces in place for him to play with. I think they proved that this year. If Yao can come back and give us some production that would be huge. We would be right up there with LA IMO. And who knows what other move Morey would make after getting Bosh. Still have the MLE to work with.

 

Here's where our respective opinions tend to differ, DD.

While the NBA owners have been posturing for a true "hard" cap, I just don't see any feasible scenario in which a hard cap can be implemented that does not involve several years of phasing it in.

For instance, if the "hard" cap is set at $X, what happens if a team currently has a payroll in excess of $X? Also, what happens if, the following season, that team still has a payroll in excess of $X tied up in 8 players but only has those 8 players returning the following season?

There will need to be safeguards put in place, for both the players union and the team owners, that will allow a team to exceed the cap in certain circumstances, most notably with regard to signing players to the league minimum salary.

In the end, I just don't think we'll see a true "hard" cap. I think it will be "hard-ER", maybe with heavier penalties for exceeding the cap. I also think you may actually see an increased SALARY CAP, with the resulting figure also serving as some sort of "tax/penalty threshold" in the same way that the current luxury tax threshold does.

What this all means is, giving Chris Bosh the maximum salary may not KILL the Rockets' cap to quite the extent you are envisioning.

Agreed, though, that salary cap flexibility is very important and that no one truly knows what will happen with the next CBA.

 

DD makes an excellent point, one which I attempted to make simultaneously. A good GM always attempts to bring in player with high value compared to their contract.

Since you guys brought up Orlando.... what makes them a great team is not that they have Rashard Lewis (which just about everyone agrees has an inflated contracted), but that they have players like Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson who outperform their contracts. These undervalued contracts allow Orlando to add overvalued, albeit succeful, contracts like Rashard Lewis....

The goal of almost any deal, with few exceptions, should be to add "valueable contracts."