Two suspected Palestinian men armed with axes and knives killed up to five people and wounded four i

More senseless violence. It seems like it will never end.

 

It won't end until people stop seeing only violence and brutality as the "real" measure to show that leadership is taking a real stand and doing something about the problems of the other side.

The truth is that is probably the one response that ensures more violence.

 

I must have missed the time they went into a mosque and started carving up worshipers, and celebrated in the streets afterward.

 

Have you seen videos of Israelis treating black people like crap? Or chanting stuff with the N word?

I'm guessing you haven't. All religions are awful. You happy now?

 

You might have missed it given the media's quietness on such things. But it has happened. The weapons may have been different, but it's happened.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/west-bank-mosque-burned-in-suspected-settler-attack/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre

It isn't okay when either side does it, but to pretend like only side is doing it, isn't really an informed position to take.

 

That fact that a body of people can "celebrate" such senseless acts of violence.....is sickening.

 

jews stole some palestine homes and land while paying for the rest or getting land grants from england as winners of ww1 and 2. we stole the indians land. arabs stole land in africa. spain stole land from indians. whites took land from blacks in australia. everyone has been screwed over at some point.

kicking you off your land and making you a lesser citizen aint as bad as killing people. plenty of land for palestine in middle east and they will be taken in as arab brothers by neighbors. asadly no one would take the jews in as brothers because too many hate them. israel can pay $ to palestine if they would move to sweeten the deal. israel will promise to let them visit and pray at the rock dome and not to demolish historical arab buildings.

 

There are many, many instances of settlers defacing mosques, churches and Muslim and Christian graveyards and leaving offensive graffiti, as well as attacking left-wing activists, police and security people, much less Palestinians.

 

I have no doubt that there are extremist idiots among the settlers. But does the average Israeli cheer for these actions? Nope. Does the average Palestinian cheer for Hamas or at least "understand why they are doing it" (which means to at least tacitly support it)? Yes.

 

Maybe the average Israeli doesn't cheer it on, but the average Israeli isn't too concerned either. Neither are the police. And as many within the security establishment have said, it's hard to believe that Israel's security services somehow can't catch those responsible for hundreds and hundreds of violent attacks on innocent people.

I've seen some of it -- it's pretty horrific. From anecdotal experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the cops caught some of them, scared them and let them go because they were "from a good family." Because to many, unfortunately, "only Arabs are terrorists" and these kinds of acts aren't treated the same way.

It's the same when right-wingers or the ultra-orthodox riot. You won't see rubber bullets, tear gas or the skunk cannon that Arabs will get for far less violent disorder.

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In any case, violence of the sort the thread was started to decry is never justified. But it also doesn't de-legitimize the grievance. The ANC used to put tires on Boers' neck and light them on fire and plenty worse -- it still didn't justify Apartheid or render moot the opposition to it.

But if you read more about the "price tag" phenomenon and the Settler Ultras that continue it, you'll also understand why the government is so reluctant to reign them in. There's a lot of looking the other way when settlers do horrible things, in some cases out of ideological sympathy, and in others because Palestinian suffering is preferable to being shown on local TV as the Israeli officer who killed Jews.

 

There were many settlers that celebrated the massacre that Baruch Goldstein did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein

There have been other instances of the settlers celebrating this type of thing.

It's ludicrous and wrong no matter which side does it.

 

Maybe some settlers, but not the average Israeli.

 

Israel is a nation state with roughly democratically elected leadership. Gaza is a cage in Israel, the rules of which are governed by Israel.

The IDF is a nuclear armed, high tech, sophisticated, US-backed national military force, whose origins go back to Jewish terrorist groups identical to Hamas. Hamas is a rebel group selected by Palestinians in a cage to liberate Palestinians from a cage in Israel. Both these groups aim to eliminate each other. Both contain factions which are borderline genocidal. For the most part, they are not genocidal. They seek to eliminate each other's authority, and they are both willing to kill innocent civilians of any nationality in that pursuit.

Israelis live in Israel. People go to Israel on vacation. Palestinians live in cages, some better than others. The danger that an innocent Israeli faces in Israel is not in any way comparable to the danger an innocent Palestinian faces in 'Palestine'. To be clear, Israel statistically kills FAR more innocent civilians in its pursuit of killing terrorists, than the number of innocent Israelis Hamas/Fatah kill in their pursuit of attacking the occupying IDF force. None of these are targeted killings, they are all predictably incidental to reckless attacks on the enemy.

Geographically, Israel continues to increase in size by eating up more and more of the land to which Palestinians are confined. Palestinian territories continue to shrink. This has been happening for decades.

Israelis can, for the most part, leave if they want to. Palestinians, for the most part, can not do that.

This is not a war between two countries. This is people in cages in Israel fighting to get out and establish a country on less than half of the land that used to be theirs. These people are immoral and violent for sure. Nonetheless, they are not two forces competing head to head. It's a rebel group in a cage versus a military that ranks in the top 10 in the world.

This context is important. It's important because without this context, you would think that Palestinians believe Hamas are brilliant tacticians, cunning economists and suckers for human rights. This is, of course, not the case. It's only through context you would understand that Palestinians are fighting extermination - LITERALLY they are caged and their assigned territory and rights shrinking. They are looking to elect people who are their best chance of putting up a fight. You don't negotiate peace from a surrounded cage. You can only surrender from a cage, which is about to happen soon.

Again, just to be clear: I 100% condemn Hamas and the IDF, Palestinian and Israeli leaders alike. But it is important to be clear about the situation and the context of things. Palestine is not a country. Hamas is not a political party elected to run a stable and secure country. Most Palestinians cannot leave, and in fact are stateless according to international law. Palestinians are confined by military force to their areas inside the state of Israel, whether you believe that's just or not being another topic altogether.

 

Yeah, I would definitely hope not.

 

The thing that the Palestinians don't realize is that if they just gave up the violent behavior all together, showed to the world they actually wanted peace, this would strengthen their argument at gaining their own state. Israel would actually become marginalized by the US and Europe if they showed no interest in making Peace. If Israel is truly as bad as the world wants them to be, then a peaceful movement would do MUCH more for the Palestinians.

Violence by Palestinians further strengthen's Israel's argument to be a dick.

But, the world is willing to give Israel a pass because its security is undermined by multiple Palestinian terrorist groups. And Israel has legitimate enemies in the region they need to be worried about. Which is why the West will continue to support Israel unilaterally.

Violence has literally gotten the Palestinians nowhere to this point. The more violent the Palestinians become, the more valid Israel's argument is to be a dick.

 

I agree that the Palestinians should not use violence to stand up to the oppression from Israel, but I disagree with your statement that the world wants Israel to be bad.

I think most every nation would be happy if Israel didn't do anything bad

 

Most every nation would be happy if some countries didn't fund ISIS.
Most every nation would be happy if Turkey didn't imprison more journalists than any other country in the world.
Most every nation would be happy if Palestinians didn't keep shooting rockets at civilians in Israel.
Most every nation would be happy if Islamists hadn't murdered more than 10,000 people in Nigeria.
Most every nation would be happy if Pakistan didn't support and hide Islamist terrorists.
Most every nation would be happy if Saudi Arabia didn't export its extremist brand of Islam all over the world, thereby spreading intolerance and laying the foundation for terror.