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Two Innocent Americans Finally Released by Rogue Iran Regime

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Deckard, Sep 21, 2011.

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  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    #61 DaDakota, Sep 27, 2011
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    And I would say that if your profession isn't writing spy novels for the Walmart fiction rack, you've missed your calling.


    Rhad, here's a link that works. The story was updated, which is probably why your link isn't operative. Having said that, in my opinion, what Greenwald, and you, are doing is using the detention of the 3 Americans (the two young men were recently released, the young woman, of course, was released some time ago) to hammer US policy of what we both consider illegal detention without trial of foreign (and sometimes American) nationals, often for years. We've had many discussions about that American policy here, a policy instigated by George Bush and his cronies, with the de facto support of segments of the American media. It's my opinion, expressed here before, that it was a shameful policy perpetuated by the US government under Bush, a policy President Obama said he would end, yet has done little to address, and so it continues to this day.

    Why does that excuse what Iran did to these three young adventurous, and naive, American tourists? Why trot out excuses for Iran's inexcusable behavior? If you want to discuss, again, American policy with regard to detained foreign nationals, why not start a thread on it, or bring up one of the other threads that address the issue? It's certainly worth discussing, again, but I fail to see how it justifies, in any way, Iran's actions in this instance.

    I'll add that I've traveled extensively over the years and have done some foolish things myself. It didn't get me thrown in an infamous prison, only to be released with a large ransom. I was merely pointed towards the border and told to "take a hike." There are huge stretches of border regions in this world that are very poorly marked. That's what these young people found out, to their cost. Bad judgement, however, doesn't excuse abominable behavior by the government of Iran, just as it doesn't if similar actions are taken by our own government. Not in my opinion.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/09/26/iran
     
    #62 Deckard, Sep 27, 2011
  3. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    It doesn't. I never said it did. Neither did the hikers.

    You're better than this Deckard, read the goddam posts.
     
    #63 rhadamanthus, Sep 27, 2011
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I'm not interested in your back and forth with DaDakota, Rhad. Why don't you read my post again? And if it helps to enlighten you, I place no credence in anything the two guys were told by their guards, and I'm not talking about US policy. Do you seriously think those guards were "free actors," saying what they thought without any direction by Iranian intelligence? I certainly don't. I also think that it's entirely possible that these young Americans have their own opinions about illegal American detentions of foreign nationals. Were I sitting in an Iranian prison, I'd certainly ponder whether or not that American policy had an affect on my still being there. That has nothing to do with their absurd detention in Iran. That was Iranian policy. Our own bad actions doesn't excuse those of the Iranian government.
     
    #64 Deckard, Sep 27, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  5. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    I did. Your entire middle paragraph is a pseudo-rhetorical question on whether or not this obviously hypocritical grandstanding on "policy" excuses Iran from being held culpable for detaining these two men unjustly.

    It doesn't. And no one here has argued that connection except yourself above and a certain dimwit from Austin. Bad company, my friend.

    Possible. But moot. The fact of the matter is that here our media (and our people, as evidenced by this thread) have an absurd predilection towards Orwellian double-think if it fits into whatever is the current cause du jour.

    State that Iran is reacting to American foreign policy by reacting similarly when possible? You've been brainwashed!
    Or...point out a disturbingly large group of well-documented similar incidents being perpetrated by the US (which, I might point out, happens to be the point of the debate) and suddenly the more brain-dead among us question how honest this reporting really is. It's crazy.

    What should be the focus is exactly what the hikers brought up and that Greenwald extrapolated upon - how odd it is to demonize the Iranian regime for illegally holding foreigners on flimsy pretexts...yet when the USA does that over and over again suddenly it's an act of patriotic valor? This is the kind of baloney Nolan brought up a few days ago - the just world fallacy.

    Accountability is important, but the more fundamental challenge is just to continually think critically about these circumstances, and recognize that what we're doing is wrong. And the media does us a disservice to not point out the hypocrisy. And that we owe it to ourselves and our ideals to demand better. Nationalism, patriotism? Only for suckers who lack a tangible individuality...who cannot fathom thinking for themselves.

    Well duh. I mean, if I sat in a prison without charge under false pretenses I might question my own de facto support of the same policies inasmuch as my government is doing them. That, again, is the precise point of Greenwald's essay (that, and pointing out how our media facilitates ignoring this paradox).

    Possibly. The veracity of a guard's statements can be questioned. What cannot be questioned is that "do as I say, not as I do" is a delusional idea of policy and absolutely forfeits the moral/ethical high ground.

    That statement can certainly be switched around, don't you think?
     
    #65 rhadamanthus, Sep 27, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Dimwit from Austin? LOL - such lack of class from a psuedo intellectual.

    Deckard,

    You said what I was trying to say in a much more reasable manner.

    But, since I am clearly a dimwit, I should have just said.

    "Two wrongs do not make a right"

    DaDimwit !

    DD
     
    #66 DaDakota, Sep 27, 2011
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    No.

    He is guilty.
     
    #67 Nook, Sep 27, 2011
  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    You are an amazing human being.
     
    #68 Nook, Sep 27, 2011
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I know, that is why I am so successful.

    :)

    DD
     
    #69 DaDakota, Sep 27, 2011
  10. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    that was really good :grin:
     
    #70 pippendagimp, Sep 27, 2011
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Ah, got to love it when old lovers come in to threads just to remind everyone they are still here.

    Hey Gimp !! SUP !


    Anyone ever wonder why Pakistan named their capital Islamisbad?

    ;)

    DD
     
    #71 DaDakota, Sep 27, 2011
  12. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    fixed just for DoublechinneD :grin:
     
    #72 pippendagimp, Sep 27, 2011
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Sorry, too busy counting the commas in my networth......

    ;)

    DD
     
    #73 DaDakota, Sep 27, 2011
  14. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    without fail, this is always your last resort retort. whether it's telling KC to come mow your lawn or snickering that you will buy my family xmas dinner, this is your chosen way of stomping down your silverback paw on any thread you've already been made to look like a fool in.

    ...and the saddest part of it all, is that behind this grandiose silverback facade, you don't even have $10mil to your name :(
     
    #74 pippendagimp, Sep 27, 2011
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    OK, and if you think me sitting here laughing at you because you take my response about that seriously, then finally you are right.

    I don't care if you think I look the fool, I think you look foolish by constantly trying to come in and nag.

    Stop being such a nagger.

    Live in peace, and don't take this so seriously, I don't.......well most of the time........now off to my Scrooge McDuck lair to count my commas.....

    DD
     
    #75 DaDakota, Sep 27, 2011
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Oh, one more thing, no Christmas dinner for you Gimp, I wouldn't let you eat the corn from my crap.

    ;)

    DD
     
    #76 DaDakota, Sep 27, 2011
  17. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    it's probably GMO corn anyways. gigantically modified orca :grin:
     
    #77 pippendagimp, Sep 27, 2011
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Extra blubber for you !

    And FYI - King Cheetah and I live in Austin, and we have been having a good laugh for years about neighborhoods......

    When you come in late to parties, you miss the crux of the conversation...

    DD
     
    #78 DaDakota, Sep 27, 2011
  19. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    come to think of it, i think it was actually Swoly-D who u told to come mow your lawn.......for KC it was something else....maybe that neighborhood security wouldn't let him thru or something
     
    #79 pippendagimp, Sep 27, 2011
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Whereas all I have to do to make you jump is talk about money......lol.....

    DD
     
    #80 DaDakota, Sep 27, 2011
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