interesting tidbits and discussion in this interview with Kirkman (creator) and the current show runner. https://movies.yahoo.com/news/walking-dead-dissection-robert-kirkman-scott-m-gimple-050000285.html spoil tags for size and Cardpile Spoiler The Hollywood Reporter caught up with showrunner Scott M. Gimple and executive producer Robert Kirkman (who created the comics on which the series is based) to break down the finale and preview what's ahead in season five. (Gimple will return as showrunner and pen the season-five premiere. Kirkman will write the second episode.) Scott, your first season as showrunner is in the books. What was the most valuable lesson you learned? Gimple: You can do irrefutably impossible things with the right amount of planning and support from intelligent and hardworking people and pizza. Season four explored the things people do to stay alive. What's the theme of season five? Gimple: Rick said, and before that Robert said it in the comics: Are we too far gone to be people anymore, to actually be human beings, to be able to relate to one another on an emotional level, to be able to live a real humanistic and emotional life -- are we too far gone? Next season really is who do we become after that? Once that question is answered for ourselves, who are these people? That idea will be explored a few different ways. Kirkman: We're ending on a cliffhanger in season four. We're going to be dealing with Terminus in a big way as soon as we come back. We're also going to be dealing with a more capable and prepared Rick Grimes coming out of what he's experienced in this episode. He's going to go into another really awesome direction. STORY: 'Walking Dead' Season 4 Finale: Trapped at Terminus This season was a remix of the comics. Will you continue with that approach in mind? Gimple: Absolutely. As we said during our first conversation, in "Pretty Much Dead Already" when Sophia comes out of the barn, that's a remix. If we use verbatim from the comic, that's awesome. And if we have to change it, that's an opportunity to tie character and theme to it in different ways. There are ways we even chose to remix it, like with Lizzie and Mika, to find ways to take things that Robert did. He long played that [with Ben and his brother, Billy] in the comic, and we can do the same thing even a bit longer than he did it just because I liked the way he did it in the comic and I wanted to turn it up that much more. The back half of season four featured more individual character exploration and some stand-alone stories. Will season five follow a similar structure? Kirkman: I don't think this show is going to settle into one formula. We'll continue to tell different stories here and there. There may be some individual episodes that focus on a smaller group or one character. But I don't think it'll become the norm. We'll continue doing what we always do: to try and break new ground with every season. Where will season five pick up? Will there be a time jump? Kirkman: That remains to be seen. A time jump would be a bit jarring, but maybe that's an interesting way to do things. They'll either be in that train car or there will be a time jump. I guess there could possibly be other options, but I'm not going to nail anything down. What kind of discussions did you have with AMC about telling a cannibalism story? Gimple: I don't believe we've totally, completely, definitively described or illustrated those people as cannibals. They're up to no good, but I saw no people being eaten. There are absolutely piles of human bones there. That doesn't necessarily mean that they ate those people. People have died there, and they are up to awful things there; whether or not it's cannibalism, we'll find out pretty quickly. That episode does not definitively tell you whether or not they're cannibals. STORY: 'Walking Dead': Who Is Gareth: Our Three Best (Educated) Guesses Gareth seems similar to Chris, the head of the so-called Hunters from the comics. Would you say those two characters have anything in common? Gimple: They have very similar hair. (Laughs.) That's as far as I would go. I'm not going to say people are right or wrong, but Gareth certainly isn't Chris from the comics unless Chris was lying to us about his past, which he may have. Chris unloaded what happened in his past in some detail, but I can't confirm or deny. Kirkman: It's possible; there are some similarities there. That's all I'll say. The people at Terminus have a boneyard and an ample supply of food -- with some speculating that the food Mary was cooking in the penultimate episode looking a bit like limbs. Thoughts? Where would they get all that food if Rick can barely find a rabbit? Gimple: It very well could be cannibals. If it was, I hope people would be excited about it. And if it wasn't, I'd hope they're not too bummed out. There's even the middle ground, which is the remix approach. It might be right and wrong. Kirkman: It's entirely possible that the only thing Rick can find is a rabbit because Terminus has some sort of systematic hunting methods. I wouldn't read too much into being offered food, simply because it's a very good gesture and an easy way to build trust, especially when people are coming out of the wilderness for the most part. Those people would be hungry, and if the "Terminans," or whatever we're calling them, appear to be kind and accommodating, offering them food would be the natural thing to do. So it's not Beth on the grill as many are speculating? Gimple: She may be on the grill. Or that may be a lovely cut of flank steak with the flank being a cow, goat, sheep or deer. Kirkman: The more prevalent a theory is and the more people who have keyed in on it makes it the least likely one to be true. PHOTOS: Inside 'The Walking Dead's' Spooky Season 4 Premiere What's the deal with the boneyard and the candle room that seems like a memorial with words of warning to strangers? All signs point to cannibals with some sort of conscience. Gimple: We will get more of that in episode 501. It looks like a memorial, and they could be super weird people who memorialize people they victimize, or it could be that something happened to them. Kirkman: That possibility is there. The people of Terminus have a great many secrets that will be revealed. They've proven themselves to be fairly dangerous. Whether or not they are actually cannibals remains to be seen. Seeing Gareth and Rick and the people of Terminus and our survivors go head to head is going to be interesting. There is a very deep, dark and storied history to Terminus and how these people came to be that will be revealed in season five. There are an enormous amount of hints here and there in the finale that you could freeze frame and study and dig into over the span of months between the end of season four and the beginning of season five that will in some cases give you some pretty good hints and other cases be deliberately misleading as we intend it. The Cannibals story ended in the comics when they "ate" Dale after he'd already been bitten. Bob has an injury from The Governor's shooting attack that was compounded when a walker took a bite out of his bandage. Could this be something you explore next season? Kirkman: Or there could be no story there. He was injured in the shootout at the prison and had the bandage, and it seems like the bite saves him, and that could be the end of that story. The past couple episodes have been extremely dark, with Lizzie's and Mika's deaths and Carl's near rape in the finale, further proving how dangerous this world is for children. How will these experiences change how our core cast treats kids going forward? Kirkman: They've seen that children can be very vulnerable in many ways -- emotionally, physically -- and they can be a source of extreme danger, as we've seen with Lizzie. They'll be a bit wearier moving forward of how they encounter children and what to do with them. We'll be seeing a bit more of that moving forward. Carl has been through an awful lot this season and was nearly raped during this episode. How will that change him, considering he already thinks he's a monster? Gimple: What's interesting and tragic -- and this is something we were going for from the start of the season -- is that he would wind up with a very mature self-awareness. He's worried about being a monster, but the fact that he's worried about that is actually wonderful for this kid. At the end of season three, he wasn't worried about being a monster. (Laughs.) He was almost proud of the rough things he's done. He said, "I did what I had to do," in the season finale. In this, he's straight-up worried about the things he's done. He's worried about what his father believes him to be. It's a subtle thing, but the fact that he's worried about his demons to me says he's conquered them, that he is a human being with a conscience. He was a kid that was going down a road where he wasn't going to have one. It's not an awesome victory with Journey blasting "Anyway You Want It" after it. It's really sad but also a wonderful thing that we saw Carl recognizing and worried about his own humanity. When that gentleman with the glasses was screaming -- which was directly out of the comics, including the same bite -- Carl ran to help without thinking. He's made a lot of progress. STORY: 'Walking Dead': 'Greek' Alum to Have Big Presence in Season 4 (Exclusive) What kind of emotional impact will tearing Joe's throat out and nearly seeing Carl raped have on Rick? He was still shaking the morning after the encounter with the claimers. Gimple: I don't see Rick as shaking. The stuff he told Daryl represented him as angst-free about it. Not that he was glib or casual or anything like that, but it isn't the wringing of the hands we may have seen in the past. He isn't necessarily cold; he's accepting these are the things he is going to have to do, and he can't feel bad about it anymore; he can't torture himself about it anymore. It's, "This is who I am, and I'm going to accept it. I'm not going to celebrate it or congratulate myself about it, but I'm not going to let it destroy me." Kirkman: Rick is resigned to the fact that this is what he's going to have to do to survive. I don't think he's particularly shamed or happy about what he's doing; he's accepting his fate. You have to do what you have to do, and that's something he'll be dealing with quite a bit. [Seeing Carl almost raped and the experience with the claimers] will not be glossed over. This is not a show that introduces things like that into a character's past and then doesn't deal with them. It will be very much at the forefront when it comes to Rick, Carl and even Daryl's character as we move forward. Hershel (Scott Wilson) was back for this episode. Was that filmed before he was killed off? Why go back to the start of the season at the prison? Kirkman: Scott came back for that, and that was filmed with the finale. It was a good bookend. It was great to come back and see peaceful Rick and his influence directly from Hershel to see how far Rick has gone this season. I love the way it dovetails back into beginning of the season. It shows us that this is one big overarcing story that deals a lot with Rick's transformation and evolution. It gives us this very different Rick that we have going into season five. It was a great opportunity to get Scott back and do some cool stuff with him. Rick is a changed man from the farmer we met at the start of season four. How will his experiences with the claimers and The Governor change how he approaches his position at Terminus? Gimple: He has a great deal of confidence. He knows he can do whatever he has to do and won't hesitate, blink or be wringing his hands afterward. He could not be better equipped to handle this impossible situation than he is right now. Are Carol, Tyreese and Beth the group's best bet to get out of that railcar at Terminus, or were those screams were heard at Terminus them? Kirkman: That's our big unknown moving into the fifth season: where these characters are and how they will play into this Terminus story. It's entirely possible that they're all in another train car somewhere. It's entirely possible that none of them are at Terminus or that none of them ever arrived there. STORY: 'Walking Dead' Dissection: Greg Nicotero Talks Terminus and What's Ahead Might that powdered milk near the train car where Rick and company are have been something they fed Judith and the people who were there before them? Gimple: It would seem like they have people in there that they're feeding. Interesting. Kirkman: Anything is possible. The railcar is the first time Rick and Daryl meet Abraham and his army. How will they get along? How might they respond to Eugene, who claims to know what caused the outbreak and how to cure it? Kirkman: Abraham has proven himself to be the alpha male that has a clear mission and directive, who will stop at nothing to accomplish that. If in season five we find that Rick is at odds with that mission, we could certainly see a clash between those two. If their goals align, we could see them working together. It's going to be a pretty interesting one and will give us a lot of story material. I'd be on the look out for what it is that's going to be going on between those two guys. Rick and Daryl shared a quiet moment when he referred to him as his brother. How will that relationship evolve now that they're around so many alpha males? Kirkman: There is a closeness that is growing between all of these characters as they continue to survive together. New bonds have been formed this season between characters that didn't have as strong of a bond before. We'll continue to see them grow together so that we can tear them apart. That's what's happening here. The last line of the season: "They're screwing with the wrong people" -- is a version of Rick's quote from Issue 64. What was the discussion like to end the season on that note? Gimple: That ending we knew super early on. There wasn't as much discussion toward it as just making sure we were building toward it. The guy who was hiding under the bed in Episode 412 -- which I don't think was a cowardly act at all; it was a smart act -- but the guy who was doing that was an intermediary version of Rick that led him to be the person who went after the claimers the way he did. He's gone through such a journey from where we saw him at the beginning [of the season] without a gun at his side, farming. Now, even though they have him in a horrible spot, he knows he can do what he has to do to survive. The Walking Dead will return for its fifth season in October on AMC. Stay tuned to THR's The Live Feed for more coverage.
Thank you for the link. Couple of interesting things. Spoiler Might that powdered milk near the train car where Rick and company are have been something they fed Judith and the people who were there before them? Gimple: It would seem like they have people in there that they're feeding. Interesting. Are we going to finally see some zombie babies? We'll continue to see them grow together so that we can tear them apart. That's what's happening here. What does that mean? They're going to create rifts between members? I don't ever recall seeing that in the WD. Merl doesn't count.
How does this group have milk but no cows? It is implied that they use humans for meat and grow crops... Is this human milk? Silly.
i agree that it seems like cannibalism, BUT, if they're trapping humans to eat, i'm assuming it's because they need the food, so why offer it up to them to waste? Perhaps they're trying to experiment on them.
Maybe testing them. Whoever eats and is ok with it after the reveal will be on their side? Whoever isn't will be food.
You have to keep them alive until slaughter. With all the other people yelling from inside the cargo containers, clearly they have an excess of people to eat.
Honestly, when you add BBQ sauce and/or spice rub, meat is meat regardless of where it came from. When Rick and company entered Terminus, I bet they could have sat through a whole meal not knowing where the meat came from. It's just finger licking good BBQ. I'm wondering if Glenn, Maggie, and company did eat some of that before they were rustled up? They would be going "you guys raise your own cattle for beef?". "Uh...yeah! You know that's not beef...right? It's like when you eat cow tongue and think it's regular beef. In this case, you are eating a person thinking it's cow." That Tasha Yar chick is one good cook! Maybe that is the initiation...they greet you with BBQ and, if you eat it and think it's beef while liking it, then you are in. Otherwise, if you figure out tis made out of people, then you are on the menu. It wouldn't surprise me if one or two Terminus members defect and help the good group next season under the guise that they know eating humans is wrong but had to do it or would be on the menu themselves.
when they were running through terminus there was an area surrounded with a chainlink fence full of human bones.
could have told them it was venison, tons of deer running around maybe they pull 2 people out at a time and have them fight. the loser is eaten, and the winner has the choice of joining them. that way they have food and aren't overpopulated too quickly
i can get that, but to me it seemed like they would have heard the terminus guy yelling "ringleader, archer, samuri, boy" and should have been able to figure it out. also, not sure why this is spoilered since you are just discussing last nights episode. i guess certain overly-sensitive people have the rest of us walking on eggshells now. que lastima!
george's fiance died. jerry's great-aunt died after he said he hated people who had ponies. jerry's neighbors parrot died when kramer hid jerry's key in its food dish. the guy who lied about having cancer in order for jerry to pay for his toupee ended up dying of cancer. thats just off the top of my head...anyone else? there is no f***ing terminus in the f***ing comics.
I thought it was implied that they drugged the food (to knock them out and get them into the containers).
