Turns out Arizona border was/is not dangerous enough to warrant new law

I wouldn't call one article "the facts"....

Apparently there was enough of a problem to get the state legislature to pass the bill.

 

The state legislature could pass a law based on a perceived need that aren't backed up by the facts, or to appease a bunch of ignorant voters who believe the facts warrant the law, but haven't really examined the facts.

 

Correction: there was enough of a perception of a problem to get the state legislature to pass the bill.

Perception isn't always reality.

 

If you don't think it's realistic then listen to Sherrif Arpaio himself.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nC8MbDR1upc&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nC8MbDR1upc&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

By the way, the law that he's using to defend his reasoning is not actually the law. It's a legal opinion drafted by a group called FAIR which was also a major contributor to the new AZ law. By the way FAIR is an anti-immigration organization that was founded by a man, John Tanton, who once said, “I’ve come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority, and a clear one at that.”

 

I totally agree with the article on how they way over-politicize the danger element. The admitted issue is innocent illegals flooding the US system. Or maybe thats what I assume people SHOULD think it is. No one is familiar with the crime rate of the border towns. Its a great relief to know the border patrol are doing a good job. We should all be thankful there isnt a rise in crime.

While informative and a relief, its not the main point. The same article says the crime is happening up the road, not in the border towns. Even 1 family within 2 decades who had one of their own killed by an illegal has right to question the system. We have "knee jerks" to school shootings and terrorist threats, but not the border issue?

No one in favor of the law is saying cane to death or shoot illegal immigrants. I dont think anyone is even in favor of racial profiling for preventative measures. I think the issue with people at-large is they're saying whatever reason cited for it, "its about time" you're addressing the illegals issue. Really nothing more than that.

 

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NLgZ1LWLlko&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NLgZ1LWLlko&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

 

Please refer to the original post.

 

Good video. I live here in AZ, and it's well known that Joe is part of the growing racism and strife.

I'm hoping an intervention takes place before Brewer messes things up more than they already are.

How do you fund new efforts? Wait, that's right, you limit educational funding, an area in which Arizona ranks next to last in.

 

Why not make a law that requires ALL people in the united states to carry papers that prove they are here legally??

To me this law is intended to find and remove people who are here ILLEGALLY. Now just go do the statistics on it and see do you honestly believe there are more white illegals here than hispanic? You may point to me being racist but I am more of a realist. As an american citizen I would not mind carrying papers to prove that I am here legally, so why should other people? If you think police will abuse the law you need to address the problem with the police not the law.

If you want to change everyone's opinion that all the hispanic's are illegals and change america's, tell the illegals to leave, then we will be left with legal residents/citizens. I understand people come here for a better life, however there are citizens and legal residents of america who are poor and need to be considered first. I do not think our country is in a place to be taking care of anyone who comes here illegally. I know people who have been in hit and run accidents with illegals or accidents where they don't have insurance. I have worked with illegals who don't pay taxes. Illegals get many benefits from our governments (i.e. medicare, social security, many educational benefits as well)

There is a legal way to come here please use it. Oh, while we are at it I think that we need to change the law for citizenship, it should say "to be an american citizen you parents need to be legal residents of the United States." I was born and raised in Los Angeles, CA and I hope that California would pass a law like Arizona's.

 

I was under the impression that the only way the immigration status could be brought up is for having the police get involved with the person in some other status. If you aren't doing anything wrong, then there should be no reason for the police to come into contact with you.


And like a previous poster said, if you have a situation of "shady" situations where cops are trying to target those of a general hispanic background, that needs to be taken up with the police.

 

This is a great point. In a similar vein, if I don't care if people are here illegally, why should other people? If I don't mind if black people are denied the right to vote, why should other people? Right?

Please point me to a single illegal immigrant who doesn't pay any taxes. I would love to see this. If they rent a place to stay, they are paying property taxes. If they ever buy anything, they are paying sales taxes. If they use a fake SS # (about 50-60% of illegals do), then they are paying income, Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment taxes.

Illegal immigrants don't get Social Security or Medicare. You really need to either educate yourself or stop making things up.

On the flipside, a huge portion of illegal immigrants do pay SS and Medicare taxes - as a result, they actually fund that stuff for the rest of us. They also don't files taxes at the end of the year, so they don't get any refunds they might be owed were they legal, so the government also benefits from that.

 

Theoretically, this is true. What happens if your neighbor calls and makes up a complaint against you, forcing the police to investigate? Then you didn't do anything wrong but will be targetted for immigration status. If the cop doesn't check for that, they can now be sued by the neighbor - keep in mind, people can't sue the police department for not putting enough resources into murder or assault or rape. But they can for not focusing on illegal immigrants. Is that really the incentive structure you want in place?

 

Good point about the false accusations. Perhaps an amendment where unsubstantiated reports don't allow for checking. If there is enough evidence then you can check status. I mean, if they pull you over for speeding, that's quite enough evidence(cop saw you speeding). Just because a neighbor tried to file a complaint doesn't seem to qualify to me.


And how the heck can someone sue the PD for not deporting someone they had no reason to believe needed it? If that's in the legislation then yeah, that part definately needs to go.

 

I think he was referring to the ones who get paid under the table. The only tax those pay is sales tax.

 

Probably best to go after the people paying them under the table.

 

Course, since they also may pay US citizens under the table equally, that might help kill 2 birds with one stone.

But back to the topic, I don't think the border danger level was the impetus for the AZ ruling.

 

i guess Phoenix is too far from the border to feel the effects...

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NLgZ1LWLlko&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NLgZ1LWLlko&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

 

Now explain to me again how the second bolded comment makes you more of a realist than a racist.

 

iow, they pay taxes.

 

in a semi fked up state last night i glanced at this thread and saw turns out ariza is was/is not dangerous enough to warrant trade ha ha