I've been lurking in the forums for a few weeks now, and I just wonder ... What's with the obsession with Eric Snow? Especially ... What's the obsession with him over Steve? Is he a local product or something? The guy's been in the league 8-9 years and he still is the favorite choice of defenses league-wide to leave open. Sincerely, I just don't get it. Please reply for my clarification.
Yes, that was pretty much his first move. He's done a lot of good too. - He brought in Willis, then traded him to Toronto for 2 first round draft picks, then later traded a 2nd round pick to Milwaukee to get him back. That's pretty good trading. - Signed Matt Bullard, Matt Maloney, Eddie Johnson, drafted Harrington, Dickerson, Thomas, and stole Mobely out of the second round. - He engineered the Steve Francis trade, and drafted Yao Ming, standing firm, when many people doubted the feasibility of taking him with the number one pick, then worked well overcoming all the challenges associated with getting him over here. - He brought in Jeff Van Gundy. - He signed JJ as a FA, and traded Norris and Amaechi for Weatherspoon, which has been a good addition.
The Rockets were far from a run and gun team last year. Maybe a little more fast break, but I wouldn't be surprised if we even did that less last year. Steve Francis has never been a successful fast break player. I see where everyone is coming from. Steve has been the face of the franchise for a while now. And he is talented, no doubt. Am I excited abotu making the playoffs - sure, hell yeah. Am I excited that we spent 2/3 of the season chasing Denver, whose never had a great team and Memphis, who we're still chasing, whose never even had a winning season - um, no. Since Steve got here, the Rockets record is 187 - 204. That is sickening given where this franchise has and should be. Why can Memphis just leapfrog us like so? Is it the talent? Well then get better talent. I think it's because their players have adapted to a new coaching style and system in a way that Francis likely never will. I don't want to trade him for a bag of chips, but if the right, equitable deal comes along, you HAVE to look at it.
The first post in this thread is... THE BEST POST EVER!!! Thank you stra, I feel the exact same about Steve Francis. It's called LOYALTY and PATIENCE! I've cheered and cried throughout the ups and downs since we've had Steve Francis, and I want him to finish with us and get some championships. People have down times, and the truly good players bounce back and Steve WILL DO that. Thank you again stra, you're another fan that gets it.
My obssesion with him is not OVER Steve, it's over Mobley. The guy brings heart, effort, and consistency. He also has a good asst/to ratio (if not great) and knows when and how much to defer to the better players. That's all I ask from at least ONE of our backcourt players.
I have defended Steve in the past, then when superbowl stuff came around I was really pissed off. Now I'm kind of in the middle. Steve recent play has made me love him a again, but if a right deal come along I still would consider it. No it doesn't mean freaking AK, Ray Allen, Brand, etc. The only players I would trade Steve for are T - Mac, Kobe, or a heck of package. In short I wont trade Steve unless it's a very obvious benefit for the team. Once again, great post str, I love it. Some props to our players is always good.
I meant that Steve was use to doing things his own way, creating things on his own, not running a half court system that much, but I worded it wrong. I'm not sure how Memphis was able to leapfrog us like they have, we do have to give credit to Hubie and Jerry West, they have totally changed that ball club. They found a nice nucleus of talent, no one thinks of themselves as a superstar, and Hubie's rotation is the deepest in the league. I agree if the right deal comes along, the Rockets need to look at it, but I hope they don't trade him just because it's seems like its' the right thing to do. It does seem that we are starting to play well together. Go Rockets!!
Adjusted by taking out the 3rd year (injury year) record is 159 - 150. Considering that the first year he was here was a rebuilding year, he really hasn't done that bad as the leader of this team. About as good as AI, T- Mac or Baron Davis has done in the past couple of years (except no playoff since the west is very competetive). I'm not sure if he would be good enough to take us to the next step (championship) but with the developement of Yao, he probably wont have to. But I think the misconception that we can't win with Francis is just wrong. I think Yao has matured much faster than I expected and have taken over the team, but I think Francis is a fine second superstar compliment to Yao. And the difference between Francis and some of the other superstars I mentioned above is that Francis is now ok with letting the be in some one elses hands, none of the players mentioned above have done that yet.
There are two separate issues, here. 1. Should the Rockets not trade Francis for loyalty based reasons even if trading him makes them a better team? I say no. Steve's never taken the team to the playoffs. This is his 5th year at the team, not is 10th. I'd actually miss him... but if we get more compatible talent in return... great. 2. Would trading Steve actually make the Rockets a better team? If you get equal value, the answer almost certainly has to be yes. The reasons' pretty simple, really - with a dominant center, great shooters are more useful than mediocre shooters who can drive well. Just sort of a fact of playing - if you play inside-out... and have two equal players... then you want the shooter, first, over the driver. Neither issue has anything to do with steve's level of play or his ability.
I think the defining moment was when we had about a minute left against New Orleans (I nearly typed "Charlotte") and the Hornets hit yet another triple and were within 7. Reading JVG's lips on the sideline ("motherf*****! f*** me!") just about summed it up (he had just called a timeout). It isn't just Steve but he is earning a max contract and he basically acted like it was over just like the others. We don't have solid leadership. And I WILL use the max contract argument. Granted, he gets voted as an All Star starter anyway, so that must confuse his judgment. And I give him credit for hitting his free throws in the last minute. I guess all this rambling comes down to this: Steve will be heavily shopped in the summer. Our guys are lousy at finishing out games, and they should be well past that nonsense.
I hate to break up this Steve Francis Love Fest but... If you were going to design a PG who was the opposite of what would be optimum for a Yao-centric team it would be Francis. Francis is an athletic scorer who is most comfortable taking multiple dribbles to setup his shot and one who needs volumes of shots...a rhythm shooter who needs lots of shots to get into a comfort zone. And he doesn't provide particularly good passing skills and he runs a fast break very poorly. Both of these are also factors in Francis' high TO number which is a detriment in a JVG system where each possesion is greatly emphasized. The ideal PG for a Yao/JVG team is a PG with less flash and more substance. A dependable shooter with decent range and one who can launch without dribbling. Someone who makes good decisions and doesn't commit TO's. And someone who can run a fastbreak and take the Rockets from an 85 ppg 8 fastbreak point team to a 90 ppg 13+ fastbreak point team. (Rockets are something like 24-4 when scoring 90+). Maybe I have an extreme partiality to Old School type PG's but I just can't see how the Rockets are going to be successful with Steve Francis as their PG. For most of the current season, the Rockets have won in spite of Steve more than because of him. I'm sure all of the pro-Francis group will come back in here and flame me but from Game 1, I've tolerated Francis because he was a Rocket. I'm just someone who is less impresssed with vertical leaps, crossover moves and athleticism than I am with precision passing, solid D and running a break. The latter three aspects are something Francis may be trying to learn, but they are not a part of his basketball fabric.
Can you take out the Migraine Season? The Mo T missing the whole season season? What about the weakness that have been in the front court for 3 yrs b4 Yao got here. . . hell even last year but no It is all steve's fault Rocket River
this speaks VOLUMES about you position Steve NEVER had a chance with you . . . So steve is the sole reason we have not been to the playoffs? Is steve TRULY the major reason? Look at our forwards over the last 5 yrs Look at the peices around him? I'm not saying steve is McGrady. Paul Peirce, AI Which he would have had to been to get some of those teams into the playoffs. We had talent but . . it did not develope Griffin didn't develop like we like Rice lost his jumper Mo T didn't have fire Cat and Steve was leaving it on the court EVERY NIGHT but they are the reason . . . . whatever Rocket River Stockton is the reason why the Jazz never won a championship . . .. If they had a more athletic guard. . .perhaps. . . . . . [that is about how silly the Steve = no playoffs sound]
All of our three main guys have started their career at Rockets, if they stay and win something, that is sweet.
Yes having a great passing pg is good but it is not that important IMO. Right now with Steve we can kill teams in many different ways which is necessary because Yao is not good enough to be the main man every single night. Why do so many people insist on bringing in a type of player that would first of all not be such a character that Steve is and second of all would not cause any match up problems for the opposing team. You all want a Kenny Smith but you all hated Kenny Smith! Steve, JJ, Yao and Cuttino has chemistry, offensive and defensive talent, heart and hustle in common. If I was the opposing team I would be scared by going up against a starting lineup including these four at the same time, but if I was going up against say Snow, Steve, JJ and Yao or Snow, Cat, JJ and Yao then I would know that if my team could stop Yao from scoring then we would be alright. We have complaints about Steve Francis but try going to a Sixers board then you will find that they are very frustrated with Snow and his sleepwalking, non-scoring game many times. Try going to a Hornets board they will critizise Baron Davis for being selfish. Try going to a sonics board they will critizise Lewis and Ray Allen for not being leaders and being soft. Try going to a Mavs board they will critizise Nowitzki and Finley for not playing defense. But while critizing these fans do not demand a trade because they think of the mentioned players as Hornets, Mavs, Sonics players etc. So I am dreaming of a world where we can discuss the Rox team and players without demanding trades and pointing out the negatives all the time. A world where it is possible to enjoy the ups and downs and where you feel like it is OK to root for a guy despite his flaws. Judging from the majority of posts in this thread it looks as if I am not alone. One final say.. There is no pg in the nba I would trade Steve Francis for right now straight up. What about Kidd you might say. Well he is good but I do not want to root for a man who beats his wife, a man who is the major reason his coach was fired, a man who is well just plain an ass. On top of that he does not have many years left in the tank. Well what about Payton then? Same story except the wifebeating. Then you could make a case about many other PGs out there but while they may be better in some aspects of the game than Francis there are aspects where they are not. So it would in most cases not be worth loosing a true Rocket player for a guy who we do not even know would make us better.
