Trump on waterboarding: 'We have to fight fire with fire'

This it? That doesn't look so bad. I've watched ISIS training videos where they demonstrate execution procedures by killing a person on-screen.

Definitely would do water-boarding, if innocent people's lives are at risk.

 

Yeah, literally drowning isn't that bad. That couldn't make you make false statements just to end the procedure like, oh I don't know, you were born a bunny rabbit.

 

Not the same thing but consider this, will you?

If you are a say...20 year old kid living in Syria...and some bomb touchdown your home and killed a chunk of your family. Tell me, who are you going to fight and die for? My guess is it won't be for the people who dropped the bomb. Killing only breeds hate and encourages revenge.

 

There is never a situation where that would be the best way to get information to protect innocent people. It just isn't possible. It might actually slow the people trying to protect the innocents down, or leave it up to them to make a good guess.

I would rather use the more efficient means of interrogation to get more reliable answers.

 

The people that support torture aren't interested in the best way to get information. They claim they want to use it because there may be a sliver of a chance that it would help save lives and that's the most important thing, but that's just a front for their real feelings, which they know the civilized world doesn't accept. They're sadists with a thirst for vengeance, not justice.

Every now and then one of them says, "I don't care if it doesn't work, they deserve it! They're medieval! Fight fire with fire!" It's an excuse to act to their basest instincts because the enemy did it first. It's like if your dog crapped in your shoe, so you crapped in his kennel. You say these guys are below you, then you show yourself to be no different. It's disgusting.

 

Such outrage from the same group that preaches love and tolerance and then goes on apeshit crazy protests and riots when they don't get their way.

If isis wants to engage us and try to terrorize like vicious animals, treat them like vicious animals. Like they wouldnt do the same or worse to us.

 

I don't know why, but you're not being a plain dealer. You are constructing a mythical America that fits your beliefs. I myself (wasted, I guess) spent some time trying to describe a motivation for and participation in a 100,000 person march that was entirely peaceful, friendly, and even funny. But you keep ignoring a lot of reality and accept the false narrative that we all "go apeshit crazy" and you conflate any protest with a "riot." That's like saying Bill Laimbeer was a dirty player -- true -- ergo everyone who likes basketball is a dirty player -- very false. It's counter-productive, and only helps further divide us. Is that really what you want? I know people like Bannon and our lovable white nationalist Dei do want that; they want to divide America further and crush anyone who opposes their narrow views; humans do this from time to time, history shows.

But do you really want a more divided America? I don't.

On torture, if you want to act like "vicious animals," then we become no better than Isis, just with a different leader. Let's be better. It has served us well, over and over, in our history. We didn't act like Nazis or the Japenese Empire to beat the Nazis and the Japanese Empire. We don't (or shouldn't) torture. I respect John McCain's view on this more than just about anyone else's because he endured a lot of torture. He knows what it's about.

Cheers.

 

I'll give you that I exaggerated the riots, In the womens protest, there was not rioting, but madonna sure fired people up talking about blowing up the white house. The inauguration protests spawned some rioters and destruction, but that was quelled efficiently. All these other moron protesters blocking traffic, all the verbal attacks, bullying ....it goes both ways, but it what it is.

As for the vicious animals, how long are we supposed to be better. Destroy isis in every way possible if we have that capabilty. Do what you can to end this war on us or anyone that doesn't accept their beliefs. It's military action...nobody is looking for a nobel peace prize.

If it was one of your loved ones, and you had to get info, would you do whatever is neccesary to protect your loved one from death?

 

Got to be very careful with this.

Are you really ok that we stoop to the levels of vicious animals? I don't think you do.

I can see that it is tempting, but does it really solve anything? The answer is no. We know that from history. Even if you don't accept that, are you willing to go there? Are you willing to damage yourself, cause once you go there, how are you different from them?

BTW, I watched Trump 1st interview at the WH. On this topic (actually, on nearly all of them), it's hard to comprehend what he is saying. He said he personally believe in torture. He acknowledged that his Sec of Defense said that stuff doesn't work and praise his SoD as great. He said that others said it does work. He said that he will listen to the generals and SoD. And he said that he will fight fire with fire....

 

Forever.

 

Txtony, I hope I've never disrespected you, because I respect the manner we discuss things.

I'll answer honestly. I do think its ok to do what's necessary. I'm sure there the majority of our country could not stomach doing that, but I believe that there are people out there that are strong enough to handle this. Could I do something like that? I have no doubt if it was necessary.

 

It's never necessary. Torture doesn't work for extracting reliable information. This is not debatable. Just admit you want vengeance and leave it at that. Any argument that we should do it because it can help save lives is based on deliberate ignorance or is simply a lie.

 

Vengeance? I want this isis eradicated. It's as simple as that. Some people can handle that, some can't.

 

ISIS is a caliphate with territory and soldiers. We've been fighting them conventionally because they are a conventional enemy. Now, they also have been encouraging lone wolf terrorist attacks. When they're not really all that intimately involved in the planning specifics of these attacks, there's not much interrogating will produce, with or without torture. If the goal is defeat ISIS, I don't think torture is even a relevant subject. If we want to step up our game on ISIS, we send troops with guns and missiles to kill the enemy in conventional war.

 

I agree in that lone wolf cells are just that, but I personally, I don't think we should take anything off the table if there is a possibility of getting some info from these savages. With all due respect, It's war, and wars should be fought to win, not just to fight.

 

Right they do need to be fought to win, which is why we should keep torture illegal. Torture is not an effective means of interrogation. The torture victim will tell not only what he knows to be true, but what he believes the interrogator wants to hear. So any information gathered via torture will have to be verified and investigated by other means which wastes valuable resources.

It also creates problems for troops in foreign nations. When the people in that nation are being tortured the target on the back of American troops is bigger. We know that after Abu Ghraib the terrorists recruitment sky-rocketed.

So holding oneself to higher moral standard is also important and should always be done. But even if that wasn't an issue, torture is and should be a war crime never practiced by the United States.

 

Sounds like Trump's not going with torture after all.

On Mattis: "He has stated publicly that he does not necessarily believe in torture or waterboarding, or however you want to define it...I don't necessarily agree. But I would tell you that he will override because I'm giving him that power. He's an expert."

Though of course this statement is subject to change in the next 24 hours.

 

Fixed it for you, and for my main man, Naranja Grande, who lives life on a shot clock. Oh yeah!

 

I hear you, and not just loved ones. To save any innocents, particularly American innocents, I would really want to do anything in the Geneva convention to save them. And the experts say torture doesn't really return good intel. I believe them. I feel like people watch too many TV shows (not you necessarily, but I ain't excepting my main man, the President! I bet he watched him a lot of 24, speaking of his fave #.)

I'll put it a different way. What if a loved one from your family was falsely arrested, suspected of terrorist links, and then tortured. Right? I was for a couple of months after 9/11 on some sort of list and was always hassled in airports, especially and specifically me. Lasted about 3 months and now I'm on an expedited list most times. But anyway, innocent people end up in bad situations too. It's one of many reasons to not act like ISIS, like animals.

Cheers.