[Trump] An invitation for Evangelicals to Debate the Merits of Supporting Trump

OP, for what it's worth, I think this is a very interesting and relevant thread. I think it is deeply difficult for Christians to defend the support for Trump. The answer is that support for Trump runs contrary to the stated or understood higher values or purposes of the Bible or Church.

But it doesn't work that way. As someone said, the support for Trump is based on Trump's ability to push back against modern culture and society. From there, Christians who support must reconcile the support ofTrump with the Bible in some way. It's a religious form of confirmation bias. Most people aren't capable of, or don't want to engage in, intellectual honesty... at least not when it comes to a situation where they have made a decision that is "wrong" but they feel deeply that it is or should be right. They lie to themselves or adopt a selective view that makes it ok. But everyone does that in different aspects of life.

In the eyes of non-christians, the Church was already suffering in reputation due to a lot of things (e.g., Catholic priests). The deep support of Trump has indeed further tarnished the Church. The op-ed went straight to the heart of the matter --- if you're christian and you're supposed to be very thoughtful or focused on spreading the gospel and the higher purpose/values of the Church, the broad support of Trump is highly damaging to that goal. If it's the highest goal, the only thing that can be said is that the actions of the church don't align with that goal and the church has lost its way.

I like your view of the Church -- that it has a high calling, it's supposed to be a beacon in difficult times. That's when the Church is at its very best and when non-christians see it as a positive to society. I think that most non-christians grudgingly recognize that that form of the Church still exists, but they feel it is the exception rather than the norm.

 

hi OP. I was changed when, in my youth, my Methodist preacher recommended the writings of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I’m NOT making analogies between his awful times and our weird times, but there is a deep clarity on the interface of church and political society in that man’s mind. He made an ultimate sacrifice to support the way of Christ, where so many around him rationalized.

ive been super lucky to recently reconnect with that minister, who is now in his 80’s! He’s still an avid reader of challenging works.

and. Merry Christmas to all of y’all.

 

So you're citing one church and one religion...

But you still have not stated what religion is taking its place..

T_Man

 

Dude... what the crap????

Man you just need to quit with some of this crap you're posting...

T_Man

 

I'm going to be honest dude. It's as if you stopped your US history education at middle school. This is like macaroni art levels of understanding colonial America that you learn in 5th or 6th grade.

The Puritans who left Europe because they wanted to freely practice their abusive religious practices that were draconian as **** are not part of the same ancestor tree as modern Southern Evangicals. In fact, there was a period of time when the Northern colonies were draconian fundamentalist religious hot beds while the Southern colonies just attracted people who wanted to get in on the cheap land and agriculture and weren't particularly religious.

Also, those early group of colonists who left Europe over their religious values are not praiseworthy people. They were no better than modern day ISIS and the European communties that shunned them shunned them for good reasons. The Puritan definition of persecution in Europe was not being able to persecute others. The Puritans that left Europe over their religion are nothing like the founding fathers who authored and signed the Constitution.

 

Here is a Pew study that says young adults are turning away from religion all together.

Happy?

https://www.pewforum.org/2018/06/13/the-age-gap-in-religion-around-the-world/

The Age Gap in Religion Around the World

By several measures, young adults tend to be less religious than their elders; the opposite is rarely true

In the United States, religious congregations have been graying for decades, and young adults are now much less religious than their elders. Recent surveys have found that younger adults are far less likely than older generations to identify with a religion, believe in God or engage in a variety of religious practices.

 

Pascal's Wager.

All of the hyper-religious conservative boomers were Godless hippies in the 60's and 70's until their own death became more than a theoretical abstraction.

I'd bet if you had good enough data, it would be a consistent trend back as far as you could go.

 

Young adults believe in God as I do.. but are not defined by a religion.. such as myself.. I was raised Baptist, but I attend a non-denominational church..

https://lifewayresearch.com/2019/01/31/young-adults-keep-christian-label-shed-many-practices/

You are searching for articles off the internet or listening too others without any true information since it sounds as if you dont attend church.

This is the same as a certain doctor writing books on how to raise kids with out ever having any...

T_Man

 

You just posted a article that did research only on young people WHO ATTEND CHURCH.

That sample is going to have a skewed bias towards people with more religious tendencies... you think?

I agree with @Ottomaton that Pascal's Wager is a real thing and this current young generation that includes me and a lot of posters here might change our minds when we turn 70 or 80.

But overall, isn't church attendence down considering the entire population anyways? So yes, this young generation will have many who will try to find religion again, but the net attendence at churches in the US is declining anyways. Maybe because the Boomer generation is a unnaturally large generation hence "baby boomer" and they are at the age of passing away naturally?

 

My point with the link is that you can find an article that meets your need...

With the religion... my question was never answered...
what religion is taking its place?
More people dont identify themselves with a religion such as Baptist or Catholic.. especially the bigger churches... They are non-denominational.
More and more people define themselves as spiritual, but that doesn't mean they dont believe in God.

I will refer to rox>mavs when he stated they do webcast... so does Olstean, TD Jake's, Tony Evans and more... My daughter who is 20 something looks at the One church webcast...

Young adults are in church, but not the traditional way.

T_Man

 

I agree...

Also as Baptist churches numbers have declined.. Non-denominational churches have grown... still Christianity...

T_Man

 

Actually there were other persecuted groups.... you are the one leaning on what fifth grade taught....

 

List them and show their ties to the modern Southern Evangelical lineage.

 

I live in Arkansas and NONE of my friends go to church. We did as youths but religion is dying a fast death.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/millennials-are-leaving-religion-and-not-coming-back/amp/