[Trump] An invitation for Evangelicals to Debate the Merits of Supporting Trump

well as I stated in the OP it was strictly an invitation for Evangelicals. The only people replying in this thread seem most to be not. I assume because they’d like to debate the merits of Christianity which is a fine topic to debate. But yeah not the focus of this thread. Now the fact I haven’t really gotten discourse with any other believer willing to debate the issue on biblical grounds tells me

a) there aren’t any that are rockets fans that are crazy enough to be surfing a forum (which is likely)

b) there aren’t any that feel confident enough in their theology to engage the debate (again likely)

either way though how would I know if there are none and only A or B are true unless I open an invitation by opening the thread? I’ll go a few more rounds in here hoping someone picks it up but if I don’t then I’ll assume A or B.

if it ends up being C (people who don’t delineate between politics and faith) than I’m not interested in a debate with them since we’d be operating off different beliefs. But if indeed it’s more C, then the reality is more likely that the true church of faithful believers is a lot smaller than most assume is there in America. A majority of church goers are cultural Christians by that measure which means they really aren’t Christians.

if that’s the case I can come to terms with that. There’s just no way I or any other Christian would truly know without challenging others through biblical debate. Which again, is why I started the thread. To resolve the question in my mind one way or the other.

 

I should clarify, I have gotten engagement from one poster in private messaging. But my last round of biblical questions haven’t been answered yet which I assume is either because it’s the holidays and they’ve got better things to do than surf the D&D on Christmas Eve. Or they don’t know how to respond to my biblical citations.

 

youre talking about engaging the millennial generation which every church ought to thinking really hard in terms of changing the way they do church if they want to engage them well. Again this is the job of every generation of church leader and pastor. We all need to be thinking less about how to reach those in our own generation and more those of the next. Cultivating critical thinking and leadership

edit: I think if the next generations of young people are leaving the church in its current form, they’ll look to reform in a context that is authentic and meaningful for them. I do think traditional church as we see it today will die off. Form must always change and that’s a good thing, but function remains the same throughout every generation so long as the core theology remains in tact.

 

The latest research, my church is growing as well. 10 years ago our attendance was something like 2500. Today somewhere around 8000. But the greatest area of growth has been in our online service. That’s where most are engaging. The trick is creating relational connection through virtual mediums.

but we look at national data and research to see where churches are declining and where they’re growing. Learning from one another to understand what gets the next generation truly engaged in transformation. But I’m at a church with incredible resources. Many smaller ones with smaller budgets and staff don’t have access to the same data so they’re having to shoot in the dark on a lot of things.

 

That actually wasn’t me that claimed Christianity was declining. You were replying to No Worries. I was just chiming in.

but I will say that the next generation is becoming more disillusioned with traditional church. But that’s nothing new....each generation has to refresh the way it thinks about ministry lest it shutter its doors once it’s last generation dies off.

Edit: I will also say growth in numbers doesn’t mean growth in faith and maturity. It’s easy to gain in numbers if you have a message that scratches an itch. The same way Fox News can gain numbers in viewership by airing entertainment news that people want to hear.

the real question of growth and engagement is more about engaging more people in transformational growth that can be uncomfortable to their general sensibilities of what it means to live a Christ centered life.

 

permit me to give you a real example. This month I’m tasked to pilot a ministry for new parents, couples expecting their first kid. We researched a number of ways to do this. A class, online, weekly small group. We landed in doing a weekend retreat that includes 3 educational sessions and a long period of leisure time for couples to get to know one another. Now my own inclination based on my own generation would be to go heavy on content so people actually get tools and education. But a panel of millennials that we’re piloting this with prefer a relational experience. So I went lighter on content and created more time for engagement. We have to rethink the way we do things in order to create value and meaning for the generation that will be the next leaders.

a lot of churches don’t take as much time to abandon traditional ways of doing things and work to recreate ministries. But those that do will be able reach younger people.

 

Lol, yeah Joel’s church is gigachurch man. Those numbers are nuts....like 50k. 8k is huge too though. I originally came from churches anywhere between 100-800. I took a pastoral position at the church I’m at now. I’m one of 20-25 pastors so I’m very narrow in my job function. I only help with care ministries, counseling and recovery, curriculum and leadership development.

I would say it’s not even a point of stated emphasis of “saving souls”. My church is focused on engaging the community wherever they’re at, creating relationships and allowing the conversations that come out of those relationships function as opportunities to see the gospel applied in real life and in messy ways.

most of my every day job entails meeting with people that are hurting and needing help. A lot of it’s mental health and marriage issues. But whatever the case, I/we look to engage people in the real hard and messy parts of life because that’s where the need is, that’s where change happens and where the gospel means the most.

if by “running a church like a business” you mean about making money, I can tell you no one on our staff went into this to make money. I left a 6 figure salary in consulting to do this. A lot of my fellow pastors as well. Many of them are capable of earning so much more and left high paying salaries to do something to make a difference.

Even the private practice that I run. We gave out something like $200k in free counseling to the community to offer help that was more affordable. I understand many see churches as prosperity gospel and money making schemes. And many within the Christian community see large churches as businesses. I do think to operate at larger levels you need to run the staff like a corporation in order to function. But many of the partner churches of similar size as ours, we all do this because we want to serve.