Man, I never expected a simple trade proposal to generate such venom. Yes, there are some trades on the board that are laughable, like exchanging all of our junk for KG, but I don’t think that my idea was that bad, much less worthy of scorn. I mean, “STOP POSTING IMMEDIATELY”? What did I do to deserve that witty retort? If you met me in real life, and I expressed a bad idea to you, would you tell me to “SHUT UP IMMEDIATELY”? Would you say that to my face? Maybe you would, but that would make you obnoxious and rude. The surprising thing is that, even after such a negative outpouring, I still think that my trade is fair: moving our streaky shoot-first guard, Moochie’s fat contract, and a couple of works-in-progress (who haven’t shown any signs of improvement) for 2 of Atlanta’s 3 best players still seems like a good idea. Sure it would create some questions on defense, but it would plug more holes that it leaves. You’re all free to think up better solutions, but that doesn’t entitle you to kick me around. If you rate Cuttino better than Jason Terry, that’s fine. But I can legitimately point out that he’s a better passing guard than Mobley, which is arguably something we could need. If you think that Glenn Robinson is a ball-hogging loser, that’s fine. But I can legitimately point out that he was an all-star on a team that made the playoffs several times in a row, that he was able to share the ball with Ray Allen and Sam Cassell, and that he led that team in steals, all while George Karl used him as scapegoat for his own failures. Actually, the very fact that Karl hates him makes Glenn a great guy in my book. The point is, I don’t think anything I suggested deserved your spite. Please try to remember that there are human beings behind these posts, then try to be a bit more humane yourself. Thank you.
Terry a better passer? Well, that is not saying much. Glenn Robinson a former All-Star? So was Rice, that isn't saying much either. Robinson is a shoot first, ask questions later type of player. What would this trade really do for us? It is apparent that Robinson is a cancer. We don't need another ball hog. Explain your views on how this team would play defense. Please, I would like to read your respnse. Would you put Terry on the likes of Kobe, Tracy... or would Francis defend those types of players? (Man, Fisher type players would be able to score 30 on us.) Would you play zone when Robinson is in the game considering he has never hustled after a loose ball much less hustle on the defensive rotations? I'll tell you one thing this trade would do. It would put us in the hunt for the #1 pick again.
BAD TRADE!! I would have to think about Shereef and Eddie since ATL wanted Eddie already but........eghh! I give Eddie one more chance 3's a charm! U neva know! Prove me right Eddie!
I already gave my thought on D in the original post at the top. Suffice to say, this trade is not for anyone who thinks that Francis could never play 2-guard. However, there are a large number of us on the board who believe that Francis is, in fact, an undersized 2 and that the offense will never improve with him at the point. I think that a lot of people overlook the fact that Steve is just one inch shorter than Cat. You also overlook the fact that Cat can't check Kobe or Tracy - no one can. I would assume that Steve could guard all of the guys that Cat can guard, not to mention score and pass better than Cat as well. So what's the point in keeping Cat? I think you forget that nobody plays man-to-man defense anymore. I think that the team, as a whole, with Posey, Hawkins, Morris, Cato, and Yao, can play enough D - it's all about finding the right combination to guard each different opponent. But in the end, I suggested this trade not for defense, but for offense. Simply put, the Rockets are a bunch of bricklayers, and Robinson changes that.
Furious Jam--I think you are very mistaken if you think Steve can guard half the people Mobley can. It is not just that Mobley has an inch or so height plus another couple in reach over Steve. A lot is mentality. To me the problem with your trade is if we go with Terry, Francis, Big Dog, Mo/EG and Yao that is a pretty small and slow NBA team. Also, between us and Atl you have 2 of the 2 worst teams in TO differential--and now we have just taken two of their main culprits. Further, with the above line-up you basically are weak defensively at 4 of your 5 positions and only average at 1 (Yao)--it would be horrible defensively. That is why I say if we get one of Atl's players let us get the one who actually plays defense (Ratliff). Given his injury history and age--it should take much more than Cato to do it. Check out my counter where we get the Big Dog & Ratliff for Rice, Cato, Norris and Nachbar. Assuming we resign Posey--now we can go with a very formidable long and pretty quick defensive frontcourt (Yao at the 5, Ratliff at the 4 & Posey at the 3) or offensive frontcourt (Yao, Mo & Big Dog) regardless of what we do with our backcourt (see below). I also proposed a trade to get Alvin Williams in a 3 way with the LAC & Tor so our backcourt becomes Williams (a tall defensive 1 who can guard 2s much better than Francis and at least = to Mobley) & Francis. A Wiliams, Francis, Posey, Ratliff & Yao team is very good defensively at 3 of the 5 positions, average at 1 (Yao)only weak at 1 (Francis) except now it (Francis) can really be covered up via man to man assignments or in a zone. Personally though, I think the backcourt decision is secondary. I think if we really upgrade the size and quickness and defensive intensity (like having the defense anchored with long and rangy JP and Ratliff) either a backcourt of Francis and Mobley or Francis and Williams would be just fine. I like the Williams pairing just a touch better because he can be the primary ball handler & set up the offense (do what Snow does to allow AI to focus on what he does best) and might be a tad better defensively--but this one I could take or leave.
To me, any deal that leaves Steve at PG without a great passing SG to compliment him is a failure. Case in point, the way you would stack up our front-court sounds great, but it wouldn't matter so long as both Steve and Cat are dominating the ball in the back. By the way, I proposed a trade a while back for Alvin Williams and Antonio Davis - it was shot down by almost everyone, just like the trade proposed in this post. The mentality I see is one where everyone wants to hit a home run, where they want to rape another team and fill our roster with their stars - it's all highly unrealistic. Any idea of moving our assets for role-players or players who have some kind of obvious flaw is just spat upon without giving it any real consideration. Alvin Williams isn't sexy enough, Antonio Davis has been injured a few times, and they both play for a losing team now, so who needs them?
I knew that would be your response. Offense, blah blah blah, offense. Basically, you want to improve our team by substituting Terry for Cat (Cat imo is a better offensive and defensive player), Robinson for Posey (I guess we are going resign Posey to sit him on the bench) and Mo Taylor for Griffin. You think that is going to benefit the team. You think that combination will complement Yao's game? I know it is all about offense for you. How will this team play "team" defense? What type of defensive scheme would you use? How do you utilize slow big men and undersized guards? X's and O"s ? Don't respond with another offense, blah blah blah, offense response.
Alvin Williams would be viable option. He doesn't have to score to be effective. I had him in my fantasy league, so needless to say I watched him on the NBA Ticket. He is a hard nose player that hustles. He doesn't have to have the ball to be effective. Two negatives that were evident in his game when I watched him had to do with inconsistent scoring (average at best outside shooter and not the greatest finisher) But, he would work well in a three guard rotation with Cat and Francis. A "CHARACTER GUY"! I bet you were giving up too much to acquire this duo!
That is why I included a seperate trade for A Williams. (see below) I don't know who you planned to offer for Davis--but his price would be awefully high (at least Cato+EG) and he is getting up there in age--thus he doesn't seem the right fit to me. Ratliff would be easier to get and is younger, even if he has even more heath questions than Davis does. I agree with you most fans have trouble getting exicted about the exchange of role players and have trouble decifering close to = value. That is why I am suggesting a couple of moves of role players with my key targets Williams, Ratliff and less so the Big Dog though I don't have a problem with him if it basically a Rice exchange. You might be able to do these moves w/o giving up our best prospect who doesn't contribute much (Griffin) and allow him time to develop. It probably would cost you Mobley (basically equal in trade value as Williams--but they bring very different things), Boki (hate to lose him--but there has to be some incentive for Atl), Rice (expiring contract), Cato (offset though b/c Ratliff can play back-up C in addition to the 4), and possibly TMo (salary filler for the Clips/Tor deal) and Mooch (salary filler for the Atl deal). I just think Ratliff and Williams would be role players who very much compliment Yao and Francis. They would really help our defense, and they are well-rounded enough to not hurt us offensively either, plus Williams would really help the team decision making (allow Francis to focus on getting to spots on the floor where he wants to be). Big Dog certainly would help the offense, and couldn't hurt the defense any more than Rice does--again though I don't care either way. If it was between keeping Rice and Boki and not trading for the Big Dog I say stand pat--but if Atl wants this to essentially loosen up Ratliff for Cato I don't let Boki get in the way. Further, if Ratliff and Big Dog don't work out they can be cut loose entirely or resigned for lower in 05--it is not a huge risk. Resigning JP also really takes the sting of losing Boki as a prospect and is insurance if the Big Dog doesn't work out as well.
