Seriously, I think the cake is all on Francis to deal with. The issue seems to be : I am Francis hear my roar....and what is his roar? His roar is all about what it takes to allow him to feel fulfilled, pacified if you will....Its about the money, yes indeed, but it includes a vision we can all see in the future.....deep in the playoffs....close your eyes and you can see it too...Francis and Mobley creating and penetrating, while the frontcourt does its thing...the excitement, the competition....I can see it happening. I may blasmyphize, but perhaps next season even, imagine that.... ....which brings us to Francis' roar....his desire, dream, what he wants...call it what you will...but Francis must understand a true superstar finds it in himself to seek improvement never his teammates no matter how lacking they are...A true leader will see the good in others and the bad in himself...The cake is yours Steve, not by seeing names out there, or dreamcasting scenarios, but looking in the mirror and finding it.
What kind of results (season record) will make Francis think that the team is making progress? Will the same record as last season and/or playoff excluded be considered regression? We are expecting a lot of Eddie to make a huge impact this season and impress Francis enough to resign. Mango
crispee, the ball's not in the Rockets' court though. It's not appropriate to trade away Steve b/c the Rockets can't grandstand b/c of some petty concern they'll lose Francis 2 years from now. Besides, you're piggy backing. You don't care about these comments. You're making some convulted point about Cuttino's worth for the team. Convulted piggy backing Cuttinophilia-Francisphobic ****er.
Ummm. Again no one in this thread is arguing that Francis leaving is a real possibility. It is his approach expressed in the press release that Jamison handled much better. So tell me exactly why you think this kid exudes superstar leadership? If he hasn't even learned his position yet...which all you Francis homeys love to remind us of...then what makes him ready to gauge management's ability to surround him with quality, much less gauge Griffin in a year. The whole idea that he uttered a thought to measure his teammates (no matter how subtle) like he is beyond reproach in defeat is a weird notion of leadership to me, especially since he isn't 100% fluid with even his role, yet. Thanos, I merely think rejecting an extension is a bad thing, because none of the first 4 stars under the new CBA did. And if Odom and Brand don't next year....it will be BIG news if Francis rejects us. Basically, the future of our franchise is out of our hands at that point. And from many people's comments that Francis has a right to leave (including me), what happens if Duncan asks him to play with him. Will he wait out Griffin or play with Duncan? It is not good to be the first team under the new CBA to have an extension rejected by a star. anyhow guys....if this thread is overreacting, or stupid to you, then stop responding with drivel that it is overreacting and stupid. If you want to talk about Francis's leadership abilities and his statements compared to Jamison, then you are on topic.
They are reporters...it's their JOB to ask questions like that. I still say that you guys better hope that Griff turns out to be a NBA prodigy PF. Parity is returning to the league, and Stevie realizes that he needs another all-nba type talent, probably two, like himself to avoid being a KG kinda basketball/playoff team performer.
heypartner, Trying to stay with your topic as much as possible: When: 1) Moses took the Rockets to the Finals in the early '80's, 2) Ralph & Dream took the Rockets to the Finals later in the '80's 3) Dream took the Rockets to the Finals in the mid '90's did those players have the elusive <i>leadership</i> that is in question about Francis? Moses questioned his teammates when he made mention of his hometown buddies. Ralph lost his poise in the Finals against Boston. Was Dream a leader or just the dominant player in the league? Dream was not known as being an inspirational speaker, so how did he do it? How is Francis <i>less</i> than any of the above in the leadership category? Mango
I don't put much credence in what player's say at press conferences, especially when I can't see the nuances in their responses. If we had seen the way in which he responded to the question, then maybe my opinion would be different. The best example of this was the Webber/Costas interview; That evinced why just looking at what a player says means nothing unless you can actually *see* how they acted when responding to the question. I knew after the interview that he would not sign with the Rockets, even though his textual answer may have not supported that notion. PS: non-verbal communication is more revealing and truthful than verbal communication. I find it hard to believe that you're posting the above statement as if it were factual. That "idea" is what you've implied from a pretty pointless article. PPS: I apologize for not having a 'seemingly' unbias handle; I didn't realize that made me it impossible for me to have an objective opinion of the situation.
A few comments, just so I can get the privilege of being flamed by crispee, too. By the sheer quantity and ferocity of your remarks, crispee, your response qualifies as overreaction. Don't bother arguing with this, since every word you devote to the subject just digs you in deeper. I posted Jamison's comments from a year ago simply to show that Francis could have said something more positive, not to argue that he should have. The question, then, is why he made the conscious choice to say what he did. As Achebe eloquently pointed out, the Rockets' near-future prospects have taken some serious hits in the last few weeks. It's entirely rational for Francis to question what management intends to do about it. Ideally, any player with questions about the team's immediate direction would address those concerns to management PRIVATELY. But what if he does, and management suggests that it won't go too far out of its way to resolve those concerns? The next reasonable step would be to fire a public warning shot across management's bow, would it not? Wouldn't it be consistent with what oeilpere has posted recently if management told Francis they might be willing to go to battle with the current roster? The implied message of the Rice trade was that Griffin wasn't ready to start right away. (Not a shocking notion, IMO -- Shane Battier may be the only pick in the entire draft who is ready to start.) But if Rice isn't ready to begin the season, Francis is looking at an opening-night lineup of himself, Mobley, and three backup-caliber players. How happy would you expect him to be about that?[/list=1] Clearly, my opinion is that Francis's comment was (a) intentional and (b) reasonable. So, do I think Rockets fans should be worried? Only about the same things Francis is. If the worst happens and Francis turns down an extension next summer, the Rockets still have a season to change his mind, or to shop him and his RESTRICTED free-agency rights (meaning whichever team received him couldn't lose him for nothing unless it chose to). His market value wouldn't be diminished at all in such a scenario -- in fact, I guarantee that you could tie Cato's contract around his neck and still trade Francis for more or less the All-Star of your choice ... perhaps not a true franchise player, but still at least a player of the caliber of Eddie Jones or Antawn Jamison, perhaps Stephon Marbury. You'd see quite a bidding war, trust me.
Mango, My point is that Francis is not a leader like Moses and Dream, because he can't dominate games like they did! My point is why is this kid who is still learning his role saying he is tired of losing in the context of not re-upping. Mobley said he was tired of losing, too. He says that pretty much after every game, often in the context of blaming himself. Achebe, WRT the piggy-backing statement. You know you are just piggy-backing your wuv fest. Difference is my is based on reality of the team we have, and yours is some speculation that we could get Webber and that Dream ever really was going to considered any offer from us...despite his quotes saying he never really was going to stay.
Like that huge trade Toronto made with McGrady. Anyhow....where is my "ferocity" of words, about panicking about Francis leaving. WoW! I thought I was just showing annoyance to overreaction to my statements about Francis is not showing leadership qualities. Ummm...stay on topic Swopa. This is about "True Superstars" and leandership qualities. It is actually somewhat fun to take on all the overreaction to comments that Francis is not showing leadership qualities, yet he is offering up inferences to blame mgmt who delivered him Eddie Griffin. This bbs can't face that Francis's time is NOW to show leadership, and he is off on the wrong foot. We will blame mgmt instead... the Francis wuv fest is over. Dude needs to stop allowing lackadasiacal 1st Quarters...and shut up about not taking blame for his own success.
If you can't dominate the game (Dream & Moses) then you need something else? Do your teammates follow you because of talent or your <i>being/leadership/presence</i>? So was Zeke a leader or just dominant? I have read your posts in the past and they had a less than favorable spin on his demeanor. Even now, there is plenty of grumbling about various things that Zeke has done that show poor and/or absent leadership. Mango
crispee, McGrady was an unrestricted free agent, wasn't he? Tell me what year Francis can be an unrestricted free agent, and that's the year the Rockets should begin worrying about a McGrady scenario. I think that if they shopped Francis in '02-'03, you'd be looking at a situation far more analogous to the Hawks trading Mutombo this past season, except with the seller dealing from a STRONGER position. And Atlanta got an All-Star and more out of that trade. If the Rockets are interested in trading a PG with All-Star talent -- even a flawed one -- the suitors will be lined up around the block. BTW, my numbered points address the leadership issue. I think he's doing the right thing, and with the proper tone. Every year, there are franchise players/"true superstars" who don't get out of the first round of the playoffs -- and nearly a dozen who don't win a championship. The difference is in the strength of their supporting casts. If Francis was implying he needed to be on a team with a better player than he is, I'd agree with you. But my opinion is that he'd just like to be assured his team can put 5 true NBA-caliber starters on the floor, instead of 2 or 3. Nothing wrong with that.
Mango, Are you going down some road to imply I don't think superstars should b**** at teammates? Where did I say that? Francis vs Isiah? Isiah is not the Will of the Pistons, imo. That was about as big a team effort as we've seen in a long time. Dumars won the Finals MVP, for instance. Besides, Isiah did throw the rookie pass to Larry Bird in '88. Difference is: Isiah did Will an NCAA championship, and he DID know how to play his position to perfection from day one...other than his stubborness to think he should throw up 3ptrs to win it. Francis is still learning. He is not in the position to judge, imo. Sometimes I think the only reason Francis wants to play PG is because he doesn't want to be compared to other Shooting Guards like Jordan and be guarded by (or guarding) the super athletes that are taller than him. If he really wanted to play PG, he would never run the wing on a fastbreak. I have strong convictions about that!! You have the destiny in your hands, Francis. Don't look to blame others.
Francis has a lot of decisions to make but this is his team now and if he cant win with this team then he is a quitter like Pippen and always will be remebered as that way.
..........and he also would have been dishing more to SA for the finish. Now back on topic: Not saying that he isn't allowed to complain, just citing incidents in the past were the key player(s) had questions raised about their commitment to the team and their leadership ability. Dream had the long conversations with Charlie Thomas back in the early '90's and had to basically be <i>sold</i> on sticking things out and not giving up. I understand about the ability to dominate the game overshadowing failings in the area of leadership, but if we continue to use the Pistons as the model, is Cat == Dumars? Mango
For the love of God, please make it stop!!! Crispee: from what seems like a million posts here on this "topic", I can only see 2 people here that have somewhat your view and that is The Cat (in overreacting) and RocksMillenium (in Francis needing to be a leader). Everybody else has pretty much agreed to disagree with you on this. Just let it go and relax. The way you are going on and on about this reminds me of one of two things: 1) You're acting like either an insecure teenager who worries about every little thing Or 2) You're so angst-ridden that listening to Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, and The Fragile all by NIN might be the best thing for you. Seriously, I respect your views and you always normally put out some good threads and posts. However, this one has gotten out of control and this thread along with The Cat's about essentially the same topic is easily the following: Most Bent-Out-of-Shape Thread of the Year Most Tiresome Thread of the Year The Thread That Is Begging to Be Put Out of Its Misery of the Year The Worst Thread of the Year I'm sure you'll flame me for this, but I don't care. Not wanting to sound like a pompous a**, but I think I speak for the majority here when I say, "Please let this thread end. It serves no purpose."
Manny and Houstone, I am enjoying this topic and debate. See you both in other threads since this topic does not hold your interest. Mango
I'm enjoying it to I dont know what Manny is talking about this is the best threat of the year, it should get an award or something.
