Hysteria? That is the viewpoint of a crank. Saying this is hysteria to dismiss a point is not a point! The other thread might have had hysteria in it. Why bring hysteria into this? and dub me a drama queen. Who in this thread said anything about him planning to leave. You crank! You are posting to the wrong thread. I don't like his approach. That is the discussion. Do you get it now? Sure they will. Many will never blame losses on Francis....he is "head and shoulders above any other Rocket." We will actually blame mgmt for the losses, just like Francis is suggesting he will do. Look around? Yes, he is entitled to blame mgmt for losing and not making the playoffs. Did I not say that in my "crispee fact #1." Again, I don't like his approach. I consider it non-leadership behavior to make his comments, especially a few days after Mo goes down. Many say we shouldn't be too hard on Francis; he is just a kid. Yet, Francis is implying he will evaluate Griffin at age 21 (2 yrs) and decide then whether to bail on Griffin or not. heypocrasy, I say! also, Will....you have a more thought-provoking topic for the weekend? Quit dismissing the BBS for having too much time on its hands for worthy discussion...that is lame. Why not just try to mock me like Crisco? At least, that doesn't attempt to sum up BBS lives to dismiss ideas.
Thanos, The point of the flame war thread is to overreact and interpret his comments and threats. The point of this thread is to talk about whether or not you think a team leader, "Franchise" superstar is displaying that attitude. There are two threads. One is overreaction, and this one is saying we don't want our team leader to act this way. He is not displaying the qualities of a cocky b*stard who thinks he can will a team to victory. He is stating that he will bail if we lose and apparently not blame himself. Whether he is serious is not the issue in this thread. The issue here is that is not displaying a cocky b*stard attitude. This mgmt tries hard--mistakes or not. At some point, it is up to the players to win--bad luck or not.
Sad. We are so sad. We sit here at our keyboards in a dry offseason waiting for some little crumb we can chew on for a few more days. When it falls off the table, we pounce and fight over it, only to discover it's not even worth trying to eat. Well, at least I didn't tear my achilles this offseason. That should count for something.
They are not trying THAT hard if they expect us to see the upcoming season as another fun ride as our players mature, crispee. I'm not sure if the cocky b*stard attitude you seem to expect is a quality or not. Will can only carry one so far. It can be argued that MJ had the strongest will of a basketball player EVER, and yet, until he was surrounded with the proper supporting cast, his will granted him nothing more than early exits from the playoffs. By making those comments, Francis has effectively put a gun on their heads. Either you get me a quality supporting cast or I bolt. Money alone won't do the trick. Being cocky is one thing. Thinking that we have a shot at the playoffs with KT at the 4, or better yet, giving up all hope before the season starts as CD has said, is not being cocky. I call it being stupid. Call it selfish if you want to, but EVERY player that CARES about winning does it. Give me a supporting cast I can win with, or I bolt. Barkley, who happens to be my idol (and yours too) is living proof of this. You dislike hearing it because Francis plays for our team, but it's far from unreasonable or selsfish to expect that. If he didn't care about winning, the minute he got his check he would become another Cato.... you may not like it, but I appreaciate those comments. You are all just being true to your nature of being homers i guess.... Don't try and sell us KT as a starter. Plain and simple.
Nope. Look at the date. He said those last year when in the identical press conference as Francis. Where? Where is this thread is anyone discussing panicking. Quite the contrary, I am saying don't let the "writing on the wall" as you say it, panic YOU! Don't let injury panic YOU...Francis...that is not the attitude of a superstar. And if it really is his attitude...that he is panicking...then trade him before he refuses and extension next year. Trade him for Kwama Brown or one of the high schooler 7ers in this draft. Why is that expressing panic? I think your are lost in the wrong thread like Will.
So if Dream has one quote last December with a "smirk on his face," and Shandon complains about being waved off (not even in public) and the BBS explodes, is it a worthy discussion, because it is in the regular season? Again, don't dismiss a thread about player quotes saying "We are so sad" merely because *you* are bored with it and have nothing better to do. This is lame. <font size="1">btw: For innocent bystanders, I'm not mad at this admin nor trying to show him up in some type of power play....I'm merely using his words against him, to see what he's got for this subject. You need not bounce about and defend him. Just discuss the topic and realize this is not a "hysteria" thread like the other one turned into.</font>
You are talking about trading Francis NOW and you accuse ME of panicking??????? That's ridiculous! My mistake on the Jamison quote, but you should read his comments right after Vince got extended. The guy is in it for the money and he was just playing the locals and management into extending him. Wait and see. I don't believe that ANY other team outside of GSW would max Jamison out, and he certainly ISN'T a franchise player kind of guy. Now Francis on the other hand, is a whole new deal. You are reading way too much into his comments and the notion of trading him is nothing short of preposterous. And the one who is lost around here is you Crispee. You are playing the homer role to the point it clouds your thinking. This is bull****. Jamison was a player whose maxing out was in question. Such is not the case with Francis, obviously. By stating that his signing is not a given, he is actually acting in the benefit of all you homers out there. He is just showing how COMPETITIVE he actually is. Appreciate it. Get a grip man!
No, I am not talking about trading Francis NOW. I am saying it is an option, so there is no need to panic. sheesh. It is like someone mentions Francis and "trade" in the same sentence and some lose their minds. You call me a classic homey....when you are displaying such an enormous homey attitude to Francis that you actually believe he is our only future and thus can "stick a gun to our head," and presumably there is nothing we can do about it. Sure there is. The point of me mentioning a trade is to say even if he is sticking a gun to our head we need not panic....we can trade him, but we shouldn't lose trade value by waiting for him to reject an extension. We have one year....not two...to wait for that. We must deal with it if his quotes are true to Hakeem's quotes of last December. You display classic denial many homey's showed with Hakeems little comment with "a smirck on his face." Maybe Hakeem did mentor Francis after all. Look Thanos, There is likely nothing we can do to make up for losing Mo'. Quit panicking. We still have a hugely bright future with Francis, Mobley, and Griffin. I cannot believe Francis would suggest bailing on Griffin at age 21. That is way too early to judge his ability. Even if it is just a ploy of his....then it is a stupid comment. Either way, that is the discussion here. This is not the panic thread. You are lost in the wrong thread. If Francis is posturing....it is stupid, imo, and will achieve nothing. If Francis is serious, then he and YOU are panicking more than me. "The writing on the wall." Don't throw the panic on me, when you are the one scared of next year and beyond, yet we have Eddie Griffin. ...next!
It can be argued that YOU are the one who lost his mind by bringing up the idea of trading Francis because you are taking his comments entirely out of context... This is our main point of disagreement. I don't see why Francis demanding a competitive team works against our interest. But I see CD's comments of seeing this year just as another development year as that. You are reading too much into his words. Don't be ridiculous. I don;t see him as our only future. IF he truly is the serpent in the garden some of you are making him out to be, you can banish him with my blessings. But some people are being way too premature in reaching that judgement of him. You may not recall, but I wasn;t among those people. I saw Hakeem's comments for what they truly were, even though I hoped they weren't. Francis' comments don't come even close to what Hakeem said, for chrissakes. Oh yeah, there is. We can sign Mason for the long run and worry about a recovered Mo LATER. We have NO CLUE about what kind of player Mo is going to be when he returns, and he hasn't exactly been dominating last year, so I don't buy the logic of what do we do when Mo recovers? Trade one of them, what the hell! It's too early to judge it one way or another. You can't bet that he is going to be our savior either! It works both ways! Funny you should say that being scared of a REALITY (we have no starting PF for the foreseeble future) can be called panic, and yet, your worries about Francis being a backstabbing mutha can't be called such. My worries are based on fact. Yours are on speculation about Francis nature. Now who is the panicked one? The kid is making sure we put the BEST possible team on the floor to make sure that HE (and us) have a shot at contending. If that's panic, i love it.
Sorry Heypartner, but Thanos is right, you are the one who is completely lost in this thread. Even bringing up the idea of trading Francis (even if you add some IFs), and the idea being caused by Francis' quote, you are really overreacting and panicking. As I said in the other thread: There is nothing wrong with finding out his mindset. I just think you are panicking too much because of this - you are saying it yourself: "If Francis rejects an extension next summer, he becomes a free agent." First of all, he then only becomes a free agent in 2003, if I am not mistaken (once his contract is up). Secondly, you say it yourself: IF he rejects an extension NEXT SUMMER! He can't even sign before next summer. So what is the point of panicking now? Okay, there would be a BIG reason for concern if he had said something like "I will not sign an extension because I want to explore my options in the free agent market in 2003." He hasn't said anything close to that. The only thing he has said is that he wants to win and if he realizes that for whatever reason, he will not have a chance to win it all in Houston, he will have to think about it. I really can't find anything with this statement that worries me...if he had said "Right now, it doesn't look like I will stay in Houston after my contract is up." or whatever...different story. But his statement didn't even imply that, so why worry about something NOW that cannot even be resolved until NEXT YEAR...that's all I am saying.
Francis' comments were extremely subtle. They very much, imo were basically asking for more help, possibly calling for CD to use the med. exception. The rest of the country hasn't looked upon these comments as a "Wow, Francis is going to be a free agent in 2 years!!". The rest of the country is taking them as face value. The subject is most true: superstars don't NEED to shop around. Nothing says they can't, though. I'm curious to see if there's any follow up to this. crispee and others- Hypothetically, pretend Francis says he's not going to make up his mind this next summer (not sign extension), and is going to explore restricted free agency 2 summers from now. Would you: a.) trade him now for a promising big man/PG, and build around those+Mobley/Rice/Griffin/Taylor (hypothetically Chicago for Curry/Crawford/extras) b.) call his bluff, and see if he'll really turn down a ~100 mill. extension next summer. c.) wait out and hope he finds the grass not greener on the other side, a la Webber (or d, something else)
NIKE, something tells me that when ms. crispee (softie?) said "dang! marriage is a big step", crispee said "oh, you don't like to take risks. next." hehe. even though most of us concede that Francis' comments weren't comparable to your example... I'll still play and say "not A". BTW, I've never read so much about so little in my life on the BBS.
Fine, I've lost my head. The press conferense statement is stupid (in contrast to Jamison's classy one) or it is truthful and should be taken seriously. The main point of the thread is what does Francis expect to learn in one year? Will he think less of mgmt if we don't land Mason, even if we don't get the disabled player extension? Is he going to see if Mo' is 100%? Is he going to see if Griffin is a stud after 1 year and only 20yrs old? What does he expect to learn? The main point of the thread is <b>Why does Francis not believe he, Mobley and Griffin could win it all?</b> Do you all really not believe after one injury and losing Hakeem? If we find that he is that flakey to actually be serious about evaluating us next summer and blaming loses on injuries and mgmt, my opinion is to be prepared to trade him. Don't let him reject an extension. You will lose major trade value. To think otherwise is homey denial. Wow! I have lost my head, despite his previous flakiness with Vancouver. I can't help but think you guys just can't bare to talk about losing Francis. sheesh. Deal with it. It obviously starts with those press conference statements, complete with the agent summing it up with no room for confusion. The statement is either stupid or truthful. If it is truthful, then it is still a stupid comment based on Griffin only being 20 next yr... sheesh Francis. If you are truthful, what do you expect from Griffin this year?
Ummm.....do you want to go back and look at the Dream very subtle statement in December when no one took it seriously, such that Jeff had to start a new thread and say that everyone is wrong for not taking this seriously. Or try the "Francis waves of Shandon" stuff. Francis was in a press conference. Compare his statements to Jamison. Francis is dumb for making those statements. He earned no hero points with that. They are pointless comments. "Ummm, I need to see after this year, how well my complementary players do." Stupid. I await his next Franchise eadership statement.
Can't argue with that Perhaps he wants to wait ANOTHER year then, before making that choice? Would you consider waiting two seasons to make that decision good enough? It seems like he was ready to make that evaluation THIS season, with a healthy and complete roster, and that he may not be ready to do so next year with things not going that well, and with our roster depleted by Mo's injury? IF and that's a BIG if, he doesn;t get extended next year, it doesn't necessarily mean he is going to walk out on us the year after that. It means he needs another year to make that decision. On the other hand, we may yet make the right moves and he signs next year. Why not? Why? I just don't get it. WHY does he lose trade value if he rejects an extension? Do you think that he would turn out to be such a creep that he would simply walk out on us next year? Pure speculation.
crispee, if Francis is 24, how long should he wait on Eddie to develop? Would 6 years be fair? Francis watched his first team disintegrate w/ Charles and Dream going down. Last year he saw his team hit 45 and not make the playoffs. This big summer was marked by the acquisition of a 19 year old kid (who's punched out one of his own teammates the past two years running) and ignoring Webber to pursue the Rockets' players. Dream said 'no'. Shandon left. Bullard left. The Rockets sign Mo Taylor, who becomes a gimp. The Rockets trade for Glen Rice, currently in gimp status. Kelvin Cato was a gimp all of last year, and a subject of jokes with his teammates. You might have to excuse Steve if he takes in the air of the franchise and coughs. The Rockets have 23 M per that might not be worth anything. The Rockets have 15 M per that might not be worth anything for several years. If Steve surveys the Rockets' landscape and says "well gee... I hope that this is better next year", does that question his superstar status? I'd think that he was a moron if he was zealous enough to sign his career away this year... well, either a moron or a liar. Luckily, he's neither.
What's sad about this, and the other thread, is that all these baseless conjectures came about through a small excerpt, in a pointless, offseason "Just so ya know.." article. Obviously the chronicle didn't take his statements as seriously as some of you all, considering where the article was in the paper today. If you want to argue that Francis leaving is a real possibility, and that we should look into possible routes to move him for fair trade value if push comes to shove in the future, then at least provide substantial evidence, and not what you see between the lines. I hate the offseason....
Boy...you sure are making a good case for being prepared to trade Francis. Uh, Achebe. reread crispee fact #1...you crank! I agree he has the right to complain and make waves....I just don't like his approach to being a leader. ...next!
