True or False statement regarding Christians and Muslims in the United States

There is a reason they said "Creator", because it is not explicitly the Christian god that way. Jefferson wrote those words. Jefferson also created a version of the Bible in which he removed all elements of Jesus performing miracles, being divine or having anything to do with the supernatural.

Jefferson also said the following things:

There are pages and pages of these. And that is just Jefferson (who you ironically quoted). Most of the other founding fathers were of a similar mind set.

Like it or not, this was not founded as a Christian nation, and it would be to the detriment of the nation if people like you keep trying to turn it into one.

 

Who gives a crap? I don't care if you are a Christian. I don't care if you are a Muslim. As long as no one is getting blown up (by radical religion), I don't care.

 

FYI Jefferson did not write most of those words. He is a plagiarizing SOB

 

Yeah, I don't care who is a Christian or who is a Muslim either -- as long as you don't start trying to turn this country into a nation ruled by the laws of some made up religion and then turn those laws on me like I should be subject to them, then we're straight.

Unfortunately there are a lot of Christians in this country who do not share this opinion, and keep trying to fight some religious war over control of the history and government of this country.

The only thing sadder than their cognitive dissonance is the fact that they have been able to gain as much influence as they have.

 

This is subjective. Look, certain law, say, a potential ban on abortion, does not necessarily have to be religion-inspired. I don't have to be a Christian to think that the murder of a child is wrong. Likewise, I don't have to be religious to feel that two men or two women shouldn't be married (I don't actually feel this way btw).

You cannot stop our nation's leaders from making decisions that may or may not be motivated by religion. It would be impossible. However, I understand your viewpoint to an extent.

 

In short, religious influence, or bias, or whathaveyou, will always be present. It can be argued that it is unconstitutional to expect leaders to complete abolish thoughts of religious practice when making decisions. Just throwing that out there.

 

Yeah, I agree, there are certainly a lot of grey areas. Prohibition for instance (and why I still can't buy alcohol on Sunday mornings).

But there are also a lot of non grey areas. Like banning books, or rewriting text books to make them more in line with a Christian narrative.

And, while I agree you could never stop politicians from being informed by their religion, that is not what I am saying should happen. Rather, I am just pointing out that, while I am happy to leave religious people of all kinds alone, many of them are not willing to return the favor -- and I am not going to just act like those who try to push their religion on others via the cudgel of the government are swell folks. Nor am I going to act like religious justifications for political policy is somehow a valid justification -- it isn't. If you want to argue in favor of a policy, I am going to need you to show me a pragmatic argument, not some faith or moralistic nonsense.

 

All I know is we are one of the first, if the not the first to separate State from Church and it's a damn good idea.

 

the dude doesn't live in america. he's not even a texan or american. i got mormoms and all sorts always coming to my door or handing out pamphlets where i eat lunch. if a moslem did that they wouldnt be safe. i think the jews are the best. they never talk about converting you to their faith.

 

That's a good example of a Christianity enforced law. Blue Laws... And you're just talking about beer or wine you can buy on Sundays and not liquor. There are even counties that are dry and can't sale alcohol of any kind. In Oklahoma beer sold in certain places have a lower alcohol content. There are counties in New Jersey were businesses owners can't sale anything on Sundays expect for things of necessity like food and gas.

And from my understanding... Sunday isn't even the true day of rest... Go figure.

 

I was surprised when I couldn't buy a bottle of champagne on a Sunday morning in Houston to bring as a gift to an invitation.

But if you are seriously using that as an argument to relativize what is going on in the name of sharia law (stonings, beheadings, chopping people's hands off, subjugating women), then something is wrong with you. It's so benign and tame that really, it shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath, even if it is broadly in the same category "religiously influenced rules and laws".

It's not the same, or even comparable.

By acting like it is, you are relativizing things unfairly and enabling apologists.

 

That is weird. Anything not distilled should be completely legal to buy on Sunday.

This is a great opportunity to point out that the United States have been changing over the past decades away from religion. Years ago you couldn't buy ANYTHING on Sundays and after church small towns were deserted.

 

We're talking about here in America and I haven't noticed anyone comparing the two. Not being able to buy certain alcoholic beverages, a car, etc on Sundays may be a big deal to some of us Americans because we're in the land of the free supposedly.

And you probably should have tried a different store and or waited to the afternoon.

 

I believe your perception is correct... But that is only if those two groups are the only choices and neither of those two groups have the most power or influence. There is another religion in play that seems to be ignored here in discussions like this rather because of arrogance or none belief or both. But all signs seem to point to Illumination running the show...

Take a look at our currency... The favorite Illuminati symbol is The*All-Seeing Eye.*The all-seeing-eye is on the dollar bill... Below the illuminati pyramid/eye*symbol are the words: “Novus Ordo Seclorum,” which can be translated as: “A new order of the ages.” ---> That's New World Order currency in your pocket.

You restrict your question to just two groups to show the hypocrisy but neither of those two groups are actually running anything going by all of the proof around us that people (or sheeple as they say) choose to ignore.

 

Ignorance is the biggest threat to democracy.

 

This is where the ignorance in this thread really shines. There are those here who act like Christianity is trying to uproot the country and turn them all into Christian drones. They do not realize the amount of changes in the last 40-50 years and how most of the blue laws are being phased out. When I moved to the dirty south 15 years ago, there were still counties were you could only buy essentials on Sunday.

 

The constitution was created based on Greek principles and from philosophers like John Locke.

I agree with you that the freedom to choose who or whether to worship at all is a huge part of the constitution, but that isn't a Christian notion.

Thomas Jefferson wrote that this nation was in no way founded to be a Christian nation. And in the treaty of Tripoli he lists specifically how okay the nation should be with the Muslims.

Now different founding fathers had different ideas about what if any role God played, but that's kind of the point. I will point out that John Barlow, and John Adams all signed off on the treaty without any reservations about that article at all.They could all have these different ideas and still create the constitution.

This shows that founding fathers John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson had zero problems stating publicly that the United States was not founded on Christian principles.

You may be arguing a more subtle influence in that since these men were raised by and around Christians and may well have been Christian themselves that their principles are influenced by the religion. I don't disagree with that, but that still doesn't mean that they founded the nation on the idea of Christianity at all.
The Declaration of Independence is exactly that. It declares independence from Great Britain, and doesn't establish any laws for the nation.

 

The history is there showing that many of the primary figures who started this nation were Freemasons. Even George Washington was a Mason. The Constitution and Declaration of Independence where influenced by Freemason beliefs/laws and they were able to keep Christianity out of it.

The Grammys this year was one big long ritual from start to finish with anti-Christian songs and the President of the United States showed up to pay his tribute as well... Just saying.

 

I guess to get the point I'm trying to make across, I should change tactics. The Constitution is not a Christian document. It is the document designed as the "owners manual" of our government and the people who wrote it understood that for our country to become what they hoped they would need to make it a safe place for people who do not all think alike.

If our founding fathers had been Muslim instead of Christian, would the United States as we know it exist?

Will there ever be a truly free Muslim state or is that question an oxymoron?

To be clear, I do not want some form of "Christian" law any more than Sharia but I do believe that the freedom we have in this country is not compatible with Islamic law makers. On the other hand, we seem to do ok with Christians as leaders and law makers and have since the 1700s.