Good points all around, but I really didn't think part III was that bad. No comparison to the first two(Both of which are in my top 10 movies, probably top 5), but it is still better than most of the movies that I have seen. Actually, as I understand it, Duvall wanted no part of the third movie. He saw the direction in which it was going and hated it, so he flat out turned them down. If his exclusion did in fact have anything to do with money, then Paramount shot themselves in the foot. The movie would have been infinitely better with Duvall in it, regardless of the size of his role. I would say that the GF trilogy is my favorite of all time(Though I feel like I'm blanking on something), but I could see how part III could ruin it for some(Or most, really).
I loved GF 1 and 2. When I walked out of 3 I felt like kicking someone. I try and pretend that 3 doesnt exist, sorta like the Alien movies.
The thing about LOTR is that, as Peter Jackson said, barring cartoon form, it took 50 years just for the technology to make the special effects for a LOTR movie. Star Wars, on the other hand, was made with primitive, yet for the time great special effects.
Im not a fan of LOTR, Never saw the first two parts. Actually saw the ending of part 2 because the movie that I chose to go to was over and I just wandered over into the next theatre. Hated it, hated anything that had to do with bobbits and wizards, thought it was just another harry potter movie. Only decent thing about it was smeagle. But then yesterday I went out and watched part 3 Lotr, return of the king, and I loved it. By far one of the better movies I've ever seen. It was awesome, I didnt understand the storyline or anything but halfway through the movie I figured out more than enough to make this one hell of a movie seem spectaculary. Hands down one of the best movies of the year. Now I'm off to go get parts 1 and 2.
I'm not sure how that's relevant here. In 25 years time, someone else will adapt the "next great saga," and a comparison discussion will rage, much like this one. Inevitably, someone will bring up the point that LOTR, unlike whatever new series it's being compared to, was "made with primitive, yet for the time great special effects," thus coming full circle (maybe said by getsmartnow, Jr. ) If anything, your statement suggets a parallel between the two series. Keep in mind that at the time, no one had ever seen anything like Star Wars before, effects-wise. In fact, in order to create effects that would astound the audience, George Lucas created ILM, his FX company. Now flash forward to the present. In order to create effects that would astound HIS audience, Peter Jackson helped create yet another FX company, WETA Digital (and WETA Workshop).
Go back and watch the first Star Wars movie again..watch how they have cheesy English accents for half the film, and then drop them.... Think EWOKS in the third film. LOTR in a route !!! DD
That's an excellent point, VesceySux. And for anyone that doesn't think that the LOTR special FX are "great for the times" take a quick look between the newer Star Wars movies and LOTR. A case study on introducing CGI characters is enough to distinguish the two. LOTR did it right, Star Wars didn't. When I see Frodo and Sam struggling and wrestling with Gollum, it looks REAL to me. Jar Jar doesn't. Never did. None of the CGI characters in the new Star Wars movies do, and it's a big reason why I can't get into them because it doesn't feel integrated. The effects on LOTR went the extra mile for that realism.
Really...LOTR pretty much takes this easily. Much better direction, action, acting, writing; Star Wars lacks in pretty much all those areas. And the cheesiness in the Trilogy puts Gimli's one liners to shame. Only Empire is really top notch filmmaking; I've always contended that Lucas isn't that great of a director. Excellent imagination and creativity, great effects work...but that's it. That being said; Star Wars magic is it's overall storyline. It adapts classic fantasy tales and puts it in a sci-fi setting that film hadn't really done much of before that point. I love Star Wars; the tale of Jedi and lightsabers and the Force and Vader is awesome. But down to the nuts and bolts of film, the two series can't compare.
That's just it. SW revolutionized special effects. People were just in awe in 1977. Seeing the movie, you were transported to a different world and it was somewhat believable. The cultural phenomenon of SW has never been duplicated. (the toys, tv specials, star wars disco). ET might of come close, but not really. Star Wars helped define a generation. LOTR are great, but it can't come close to the original. What sucks is that Return of the Jedi was a cop-out. Lucas bailed on the original script because he just got divorced and was depressed. It was supposed to be even more movies with a search for Solo plot and some really cool stuff. Lucas pretty much said "screw it" and made a second Death Star. What also sucks is that LOTR showed how good the SW prequals could of been.
I need to clarify that it would need to be a director *other* than Lucas. Dude's gone nutty in his old age.
Star Wars. One has to read the Tolkien books in order for portions of the LOTR to make any sense at all. Episode 4 5 and 6 make sense in their own movie universe without having to flesh out the story with additional material. The special effects in LOTR were mostly awesome but that doesn't make it a better overall movie for me.
LOL. The last LOTR movie just came out a week ago. Care to give the series time to become a (movie) cultural phenomenon? Also, when watching LOTR, weren't you at all "transported to a different world and it was somewhat believable?" I know I was... (And, oh, BTW, the original BOOKS have sold over 100 million copies to date and WAS considered a cultural phenomenon in the 60's.)
My point was, before Star Wars special effects pretty much sucked. SW made it believable. The year before SW, they gave an Oscar to Logan's Run! It was the biggest money-making machine the movie/tv industry had ever seen. SW revitalized the sci-fi genre, and was a huge factor in the production of many sci-fi movies, such as Alien, The Black Hole, Flash Gordon, and Star Trek the Motion Picture. TV also got involved, they wanted "something like Star Wars", which lead to Project UFO, Battlestar Galactica, and Buck Rogers. I don't see LOTR pulling that off.
When I saw Star Wars in the theater as a 6-year old kid, I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. When I eagerly awaited Empire at 9 and Jedi at 12, the feeling of anticipation in my stomach was almost unbearable. I remember standing in line at the Westchase 3 cinema for over an hour, speculating about what may happen in the final chapter of the trilogy with all the other kids. It was a wonderful experience. Hell, my childhood fell right in the middle of the Star Wars trilogy. It was as much a part of my childhood as Boy Scouts or Little League..... .....or Tolkien's novels. When I heard that LOTR was being made into a live action flick, I felt a twinge of that childhood feeling of wonder.....those books were my favorites growing up....could they actually be made into decent movies? I was hopeful but worried that they would screw it up. I saw the first preview in the summer of 2001...when the Fellowship stepped past that giant rock one by one, I gasped. Legolas was exactly how I imagined him. The hobbits looked great. Gandalf was perfect. From that moment on, I was counting the days til December. The Fellowship came out, and I waited almost a month to see it. I was so worried that I would be disappointed. My wife, who read the books 5 years before, refused to see it because she "couldn't handle waiting a year to see The Two Towers." I finally went in January and was blown away. I read the books over 6 or 7 times as a kid, and yeah, they took out the Barrows and that flaming idiot Tom Bomadil (thank god), but I felt (unlike some fanboys ... sorry Nomar, etc.) that Jackson made the best movie he could out of the material given to him..AND MAKE IT A COMMERCIAL SUCCESS. The last two years have been a joy waiting for the next chapter. If I wasnt waiting for the next preview, I was waiting for the next DVD to rent (theatrical version) or buy (extended version). I spent hours trying to find out what Treebeard and Shelob would look like (they did a great job keeping those images off the web). Its hard to compare the two right now because I am on a LOTR high. I am so happy with the movies. In addition, I feel like kicking Lucas' ass because I hate the new Star Wars movies so much (well I like the last hour of Attack of the Clones....god what a dumb name for a movie). When we were in college we would take a day off from studying for finals and rent all three Star Wars flicks. Would I be willing to do the same in a few years for LOTR? Probably....despite their length, I have watched both Extended Versions about 4-5 times. One interesting point to make is that I knew the books inside and out, yet couldnt wait to see them on screen. Its not like I didnt know what was going to happen. For Star Wars, I had no idea what Lucas planned on doing. I have no idea what LOTR is like for someone who hasnt read the books and walks into the theater wondering how the War of the Rings will end. Ask me again in 5 years. Maybe then I will be so excited about the flim version of Enders Game or Hyperion that I wont even be thinking about LOTR.....but somehow, I doubt that. Its been great feeling like a 8 year old again.
... And I say give LOTR time. BTW, the LOTR books sparked a huge interest in fantasy when they came out, much like the SW movies did for sci-fi.
not talking about the books but the movies as for transported. . . well no . . . .i was generally not 'represented' in this movie . . .so a bit of detachment was there where as in SW . . ..there were at least a variety Rocket River
I'm actually reading Hyperion RIGHT NOW. Great book so far. Also, I would be absolutely stoked if Ender's Game actually made it to the big screen (and followed the book).
Star Wars movies are pretty cheesy in my opinion but they're good. I think the KOTOR game would be a much better comparison to the LOTR trilogy. KOTOR's story kicks all the Star Wars movies asses with the way it was handled.
What? I don't even understand this post. For me, it would always be Star Wars because Star Wars was so huge to me as a six year old kid, seeing that opening crawl and the pan to the Rebel Blockade Runner flying overhead, followed by the massive Star Destroyer. It was everything a kid could dream of, and it became a large part of my life in a way that no movie could as an adult (and, as an adult, I don't even really care for fantasy or sci-fi movies anymore. I've not seen any of the LOTR movies because there is nothing I've seen about them that appeals to me in any way). But if I were picking based on what I think now, I'd go with the Indiana Jones trilogy. It's the one trilogy (even with Short Round) that I enjoy the most as an adult (and I loved the first two when they came out. I didn't see the final one until a few years later since I was very busy graduating high school, becomming a father, getting married, etc. the year it came out). And my favorite Peter Jackson movie will probably always be The Frighteners.
