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Trevor Bauer Accusing the Astros of Cheating

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by mikol13, May 1, 2018.

  1. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
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    Off topic...Anyone listening to McCann with Matt Thomas right now? Talking about the pitchers constantly working together and bouncing things off of each other.

    Says this team is the best team he’s ever played on. How huge is that seeing as he played with some good Braves and Yankees teams?

    Also said he’s signed Gattis autographs when asked by people. Ha!
     
  2. sealclubber1016

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  3. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  4. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Baseball has a history of cheating. I don't think there's a chance you could have a 34 year old pitcher go from being mediocre over 9 years throwing 92 to suddenly being dominant throwing 97 without cheating speculation. He's the new unicorn in sports. Normally the way guys reinvent themselves in their 30s as pitchers is to learn to control the strike zone better. There's normally a tough transition from being the hard thrower in your 20s to the painter in your 30s. CC Sabathia struggled with that very transition. Charlie Morton might be the only pitcher in history to increase in fastball by 4-5 MPH AFTER age 32. It's remarkable.

    If Morton was doing this for another team I'm sure fans here would speculate he was cheating.

    Trevor Bauer's argument seems weird though. If pine tar can really buy you that much velocity I'd be SHOCKED.
     
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  5. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    Someone opened up a new twitter account . LOL

     
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  6. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
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  7. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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  8. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

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    Which I believe is everyone's counter-argument.

    From my understanding (and everyone else's it seems) pine tar helps spin rate. But how does spin rate increase your velocity?

    Maybe there's more to this gum business that Morton was using in the playoffs last season... hmmmm

    [​IMG]

    This Tyler may be on to something.
     
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  9. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I mean listen, I won't rule out that he's cheating somehow. It's stunning what's happened with his velocity, it's unprecedented.

    But doctoring the ball doesn't seem like a way to do it. Plenty of pitchers have used pine tar before and it might help them grip the ball better, get some extra movement on a curveball (Kenny Rogers did this famously in the playoffs) but a velocity spike? No way.
     
  10. SuraGotMadHops

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    The kids have already taken to wikipedia and changed Bauer's name to "Tyler."
     
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  11. rocks_fan

    rocks_fan Rookie

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    I'm no baseball expert, but I THINK spin rate affects how much break you'll get on a breaking ball (curveball/slider/etc.) more than fastball velocity. Bauer's just butthurt the Astros did something the Indians couldn't and beat the Yankees in a playoff series.
     
  12. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Small note to correct both Bauer and discredit Lance McCuller's "it's the coaching duh!" argument.

    Morton's fastball velocity and spin rate spiked while he was in Philly, not starting with Houston. His explanation at the time was that he decided to throw hard.
     
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I worked for the Astros during the pinnacle of the steroid/HGH. You wouldn’t believe the level of cheating that occurred. As one prominent Astro told me “the only guys who don’t try and cheat are the guys that don’t give a ****.”

    As for Morton he throws harder more consistently than he did in the past. However before he ever joined the Astros he was throwing in the high 90’s.

    I have seen professional pitchers use pine tar and goo gone and other materials on a baseball. It mostly increases spin rates and can cause bizarre movements. I don’t remember them saying anything about it increasing velocity.
     
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  14. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Morton started throwing hard the year before he joined the Astros, as a 32/33 year old. Prior to that he was a low 90s guy. Suddenly that year he became a high 90s guy. It's an unprecedented change.

    I would encourage all baseball players to follow his example and try to "throw the ball hard" and see what happens.

    The reference there is his only explanation for why his velocity jumped so dramatically.

    It's a very bizarre situation really. Whether he is cheating or not is kind of irrelevant to me but I am FASCINATED by what happened.
     
  15. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    Morton's velocity spiked in Philly before Houston which is part of why the Astros gambled 14 million on him. Nobody mentions that because it doesn't fit the narrative that Astros must be a bunch of cheaters. Especially ironic coming from Yankees fans that had a guy busted with a totally obvious shiny neck not that long ago.

    I doubt Morton uses pine tar. The dude goes to his mouth with the gum all the time.That is his thing and where all the cheating stuff started. Girardi talked to the umpire about it in game 7 of the ALCS. No way he would be licking those fingers if they were coated in pine tar.

    Also... how is this unprecedented? They only made a movie about Jimmy Morris with his high 90s heater that showed up at age 35....

    First pitch... 95 mph... I guess the Phils were in on the magic potion the Astros use....

     
    #35 Redfish81, May 1, 2018
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  16. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
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    THAT MAN HAS A FAMILY BREGMAN
     
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  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I've mentioned it several times in this thread.

    As for why most people probably don't realize it? Well his Philly year was shortened so most people don't even look at it. His teammate also attributed it to better coaching that he got in Houston.

    I think Morton is a difference case from the rest of the Houston staff that has obviously benefited from better coaching and analytics. Morton's change is a historical anomaly of a guy developing ace stuff in his 30s when he never had that before. That's not the same thing as Verlander being shown a flaw in his grip that changed his slider tilt or guys being shown numbers that convinces them to throw more offspeed stuff.

    I definitely don't think Houston as an organization is doing some sort of organizational cheating. Great organization. Analytics works. Charlie Morton is a major outlier in history though and I am curious as to what really led to that.

    Did he break his arm and suddenly find super speed like the kid from Rookie of the Year?
     
  18. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    This what make The Internet great.
     
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  19. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Math is for cheaters.
     
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  20. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Definitely something that gets lost with Morton. This Morton showed up in Philly, but got hurt after 4 starts. Astros bet on Morton possibly being the guy he looked like for that short time, and they came up Aces.
     

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