Thanks for answering. Intitially my thinking on this was that there was such an innate advantage to the male muscular skeletal system that couldn't be addressed by transitioning. As I've looked into that doesn't appear to be the case so much. This is why I keep on going to back to the actual results. So far it does't appear that transitioned athletes are dominating women sports. Also as noted that many people born as women have naturally higher levels of testosterone. For IAAF and IOC the answer appears to be that female competitors who do have to take drugs to lower their testosterone. If that's the case then I don't see why a transitioned male who has taken drugs to lower themselves below that testosterone level for competitors couldn't compete.
I had a thread with a poll here to see if anyone actually would consider transitioning if it meant dominating in their sport. From what I remember I think only one person said they would. Also in that post many derided it even as they made the argument that trans people would be the end of women's sports. This fits again the point I've been making. Trans people represent such a small part of the overall population and trans athletes an even tinier part that there isn't enough to come close to wiping out women's sports. It also doesn't appear that many would consider transitioning if it gave them an advantage in sports.
You keep shifting the requirements towards "dominating". They have an advantage for sure, it's not just the testosterone level. It's the entire muscle structure, etc. And that will undoubtedly affect some women they compete against. On balance, the interest of these women not to be unfairly pushed back in the competition (whether it is from 1 to 2 or from 120 to 121 does not matter) is to be prioritized against the interest of someone who has made a conscious decision to alter their body. And contrary to what fchowd keeps posting as a strawman, I never said that someone would have their genitals chopped off just to win in sports lol.
I honestly don't think its a problem until it's problem. The problem seems theoretical for the most part. Until I see some transitioned women win the olympics, world cup, or obliterate world records, it's not an issue. At a grade school level, I don't see it anymore of an advantage as having rich parents who hires thousands of hours of coaching and personal training. Look at highschool sports. Notice how the perennial powerhouses are from affluent districts and private schools?
Again, it is not about "wiping out women's sports", that's not where the bar is. If a woman gets pushed back in the competition from finishing 522nd to 523rd because a biological male entered the women's competition, then that is unfair.
Women are telling you it's an issue. Yet, you ignore that. Misogynist mansplaining at its best. How closed-minded and boomerish of you.
If you think transgenderism is a mental illness or a programed ideology rather than some innate trait of an individual then you believe this problem will eventually grow to unsustainable levels if the "woke"(cultural Marxism aka Nazi beliefs) ideology takes over American schools and homes.
A few sincere women and a wrath of people who see the social media algorithms and how engagement works while needing to make a living because they are professional skateboarders that lose to 10 year old girls.
Your rhetoric implies that. The way you frame the pressing nature and many of the previous past tweets and articles you've shared suggest this.
https://www.liberty.edu/champion/20...-should-not-compete-against-biological-women/ TRANSGENDER WOMEN SHOULD NOT COMPETE AGAINST BIOLOGICAL WOMEN You could describe me as many things – talkative, outgoing, spontaneous or kind. However, one word that should not describe me is athletic. Growing up in musical theater, there was not an athletic bone in my body. However, I’d like to believe that has changed. Following controversy over a political article I wrote last summer, my military father encouraged learning self-defense in case this article, or future ones, were met with physical confrontation. That’s when he introduced Muay Thai. Early June, I walked into Sammy’s Muay Thai, and it changed my life. It took less than two weeks for me to fall in love with the “art of eight limbs,” and next thing I knew I was training six days a week. Now, eight months later I’ve continued my training here in Lynchburg at The Edge Martial Arts and Tumbling. I went from sitting out when my friends did anything remotely athletic to looking into fight camps and competing in a sport. Learning this sport has only strengthened a fundamental belief: Transgender men should not, under any circumstance, compete against biological women. University of Pennsylvania swimmer Lia Thomas, a transgender male who has tallied school records competing as a woman, has recently come to controversy. Before competing as a woman, Thomas spent three seasons on the men’s team. Thomas even underwent a year of testosterone suppressants to transition from male to female. According to the New York Post, Thomas has been shattering women’s team records, and her teammates are furious at the NCAA for allowing Thomas to compete. Even Caitlin Jenner, former male Olympian now transgender woman, has spoken out against Lia Thomas, according to Meidaite. “I’ve said from the beginning, biological boys should not be playing in women’s sports. We need to protect women’s sports,” Jenner said on Fox News’ “America Reports.” What surprises me the most is the complete acceptance society has taken to individuals like Lia Thomas. The same society that pushes for women’s liberation and preaches about the beauty of being a woman, allows for men to cheapen our experiences by transitioning and defeating us. Despite the ability to transition, transgender women will never understand what it means to be a biological woman. Being a woman in a combat sport has only furthered my belief that men do not belong in women’s sports. If you are familiar with MMA, the name Fallon Fox probably rings a bell. She is known for, in 2014, fighting Tamikka Brents and fracturing her skull within the first two and a half minutes of the first round of the fight. Fox is a biological male who transitioned to female, after hitting puberty. Here lies a deeper problem with transgender athletes competing against biological athletes. It’s no longer about fairness, but about safety. Men are at an astronomical physical advantage after their bodies go through puberty, which makes competing against women unfair and dangerous. Transgender woman India Willoughby said on “Good Morning Britain” that there are 2,000 men in the world right now that run 100 meters faster than the greatest female sprinter of all time. Furthermore, Piers Morgan explained that 1,500 of the top male tennis players could beat Serena Williams. Willoughby elaborated that if a man goes through puberty, he will be taller, broader, his stride greater and his reach longer. “If you go through puberty, you have all of the benefits of having a male body. Even if you transition and reduce your testosterone, you’re still going to have those benefits,” said Olympic medalist Sharon Davies. “The bone structure, the slightly bigger hearts, more red blood cells, you know the smaller pelvis – sitting on a cycle that makes quite a big difference, so therefore for a female athlete competing with a transgender female is always going to be at a disadvantage.” The NCAA recently voted for a “sport by sport” approach to this issue. This was done to ensure transgenders are not being discriminated against, and biological athletes are ensured fairness. It is a battle between inclusion and safety. According to their website, “Like the Olympics, the updated NCAA policy calls for transgender participation for each sport to be determined by the policy for the national governing body of that sport, subject to ongoing review and recommendation by the NCAA Committee on Competitive Safeguards and Medical Aspects of Sports to the Board of Governors. If there is no NGB policy for a sport, that sport’s international federation policy would be followed. If there is no international federation policy, previously established IOC policy criteria would be followed.” Being against transgenders competing against biological individuals does not make you transphobic. Women have the right to fairness and safety while competing in their sport, and currently they have neither. Women’s sports must be upheld. mackenzie is the opinion editor. Follow her on Twitter
And again how unfair is it that Castor Semanya is it to compete against other women? She's a born biological women who also happens to have a lot of natural testosterone? She has more natural testosterone than many who were born biologically male.
The patriarchy absolutely permeates trans-activism as it permeates society as a whole. Men that transition to women were in most cases born and treated as males growing up. That influence doesn't stop or those influences do not go away when someone transitions. As for women transitioning to males, it is interesting that there have been less discussions about them - except it makes perfect sense when entitlement is considered.
Yes safety is a huge concern. That is why we have weight classes in combat sports. As noted earlier biological women have beaten men in wrestling. The trans student I coached was beaten in Judo competition by biological women.
If by influences you mean social advantages I don't think that is the case at all. From what I've seen trans women are treated much more poorly than biological men. We saw it first hand with a trans poster who was very suicidal because she felt stigmatized by family and society. So are trans males then suffering from patriarchy because they were born biological females?
I am saying that trans-activism is colored by the patriarchy, as just about every other movement, and the patriarchy is largely repressive to women. That doesn't mean that trans-activism is wrong (I support it), but it does mean that we need to be aware of it.
If my daughter was finishing 523rd in anything she did, the last conversation I'd want to have with her is one of playing the victim. If you are an athlete you understand pride. I can only speak for myself as a former athlete (one can argue how good I was, but whatever) and as a father of a daughter who is in sports now. I don't care if I or my daughter are competing against freaking space aliens... if I'm that bad I just need to get better myself, and work on my own craft. From the perspective of an athlete or an athletes father, I just can't wrap my head around the logic you are arguing. I mean there is literally a movie about the greatest competitor of all time MJ playing and beating space aliens. As an athlete and competitor you honest believe you SHOULD BE beating everyone. We are just wired that way. When you get into the blame game you just seem really really small. (unless it's blaming Scott Foster of course... then we can talk).
Ya this doesn't make sense to me honestly. I would say a nationwide poll between women and men, women would be more supportive of trans rights as they typically tend to lean more liberal on social issues mainly because usually groups that are oppressed by the status quo (as women are in general)side with the side that wants to alter it.
I never said that transwomen were treated better than biological men. I don't think that at all. Transexuals are not treated well, Yes, or at least were growing up and being treated as a female. It gives them a different perspective.
I never said that men were more supportive of transexuals. I never said that a majority of women were not supportive of transexual rights.
What requirements have I shifted? I would say winning a lot competitions and setting world records is dominating. Do you have actual records to show that trans women are dominating? Yes Lia Thomas won one national race she lost several races. By most objective result she does well but isn't dominating: https://www.newsweek.com/lia-thomas-winning-not-swimming-that-fast-data-transgender-1691874 "The data suggests that while Thomas was the fastest swimmer in that category this season, she actually would have been the fastest swimmer in only one of the last 10 seasons. In most of those previous years, her fastest time would only have got her to second at the most, and in one year she would have come as low as 12th."
