I think the issue as of now is we are in disagreement of basic facts on the ground. Some people believe children are having their dicks cut off and some people believe they aren't. We have to resolve the basic facts on the ground first before we even attempt to have a sincere discussion.
You being sure isn't really an argument. You need something beyond your gut feeling. Your gut feeling is shaped by the media you consume.
In other words, you don't care that far more kids are killed by suicide than kids having surgeries. This outrage over the extremely small amount of kids having these surgeries is so ridiculous. It's not killing them like them taking their own lives. Republicans should be more outraged over the amount of kids killed by some nutcase carrying an assault rifle.
Honestly dude it just seems like you have no intellectual curiosity in this matter and just want to take the lazy approach to form strong opinions. There is reading you can do that at least attempts to do empirical data collecting on these issues. You can try to inform yourself before you hold strong opinions based on natural feelings of what you deen "icky"
Facts scare these types. They prefer believing the far right fake crisis spreaders. The lazy way to knowledge is the easy way.
As I said in earlier threads if more people are identifying as trans then so what? Trans people probably make up less than 2% of the population. if that rises to 5% then so what. It's not as though society will suddenly collapse and it doesn't affect my life in any other way. I think there is a legitimate argument regarding surgery and hormonal treatment. I would be fine with waiting until 18 before someone is allowed to have surgery. I admit I don't know enough about hormonal treatment but given how complex puperty is I am leery of prescribing young people hormones but I think this should be a case by case by basis. What I am against though is calling parents "child abusers" if they are giving their children hormones. If their child is so depressed about who they are that suicide seems likely I think most parents would consider giving their children hormonal therapy than see them kill themselves.
Hormonal treatment has been used on children for many other issues outside of transgender issues. So we do have data and research in terms of side effects of these treatment on minors because we've already have done these treatment on minors for many other issues. And permeant physical surgeries like permanent castration for minors isn't a thing. It doesn't happen. It's a fake issue.
I believe that is two(or three) different issues. Why would you assume that I dont care about youth suicide or nutcases with rifles? Is it a crisis? Maybe not, but I think it warrants a discussion. Stereotyping is the rage right now but I would rather not engage in that. We can have a conversation without insults.
So minors get their dicks chopped off under 18 for gender reassignment? Is that a thing? I want to be on the same page as you in terms of facts on the ground before we have a discussion. There is no discussion until there is a basic set of facts we can agree on. The discussion is the subjective part. We are still struggling to agree on the objective part.
You and I dont need to have a discussion. It is never productive and we are just too different to find common ground. You assume way too much and resort to insults at even the slightest pushback. I will read your posts but I have no inclination to debate you this year.
My point is you don't know the percentage, and don't seem to really care to inform yourself, like the others who believe that making this illegal will save these children. I guarantee far far far more kids have committed suicide than have had the surgeries. Let's talk about stereotyping. Why are far right politicians labeling people as "woke" "leftist groomers" on this issue? You have nut jobs like MTG claiming schools have litter boxes for kids. It's wacked. My point about guns was those same far right politicians claiming to be the ones who are saving the children make more of an issue out of a teeny tiny percentage of kids having trans surgeries than they do over kids being gunned down in schools with assault weapons. Their thoughts and prayers get old when they defend a weapon designed to kill mass people quickly.
So do you believe that permanent castration is a thing that happens to minors for gender reassignment in the US? Is that a thing?
As said I have very limited knowledge here. I know hormones have been used to treat a variety of things including bad acne I've also had to read up and be in seminars about the dangers and signs of young athletes taking PED's. One thing that always comes up is that puberty is very complex hormonally so taking hormones to improve sports performance can do lasting damage. I don't know exactly how that applies to gender transitioning hormones but it seems like those should be treated with caution. If the alternative though is the possibility of the child committing suicide it seems like then they should be allowed to take them. I will admit it's not something I've researched but given the permanent nature of it even if it is very rare I still think it is something that should be approached with even more caution than hormone treatment. With the trans issue overall though I will continue to say that this is a largely a non-existant threat being pushed for culture war political advantage. I see no problem with teachers discussing that trans people exist and it's possible some of their students might be trans. If there are more trans people I don't think that will be the end of civilzation.
Also let's assume you completely ignore me. The people you have deemed acceptable to debate, if they also disagree with the basic facts on the ground with you, do you think that allows for a useful discussion? A discussion is something that happens AFTER the facts on the ground are agreed upon. Arguing about facts on the ground isn't a discussion. You do know this right? Did you mean another term besides "discussion"?
It is still 2 different subjects Deb. The number of kids getting gunned down is also a very small percentage also. That doesnt mean it is ok. Both subjects are worthy of discussion. The number of kids getting shot was also much smaller until it wasnt.
Here's the thing. And I don't want to sound like I'm being aggressive here. I understand you have these questions. But do you think you are delegitimizing the credibility of the researchers and scientists who have spend a lifetime's worth of work in these fields who consider hormone therapy safe? Are you saying they haven't don't rhe research? Is the problem here that you haven't done the research or the doctor assigning the treatment hasn't done the research? A lot of these arguments about "I'm not sure about this yet because I haven't done the research" has a slight implication that the medical researchers who have done it and who have deemed it safe are doing so in bad faith or haphazardly. If other medical researchers who don't have political agendas start voicing concerns based on sound research then I will have concerns but random laymen having concerns can simply mean "I don't have the time to do the research myself therefore I'll assume it's unsafe or requires more research to be deemed safe and ignore the researchers who have done the work already"
Kids are getting shot but kids aren't getting permanent surgeries for gender reassignment. Again, basic facts on the ground are in disagreement. We need to square these things or else it's just people taking over one another.
It's two different subjects, but my point is the GOP party makes one their priority, and twists facts to suit their outrage. They do it maliciously, twisting facts, and putting nasty labels on anyone doing something as a last resort to saving their child from torment. The number of people resorting to this is extremely small, and nobody knows if that procedure could save their life or ruin it more than that parent and child. My point is they are hell bent on outlawing this, and hell bent on protecting the right to carry an assault weapon designed to kill in mass. You see politicians bragging about their kids holding assault rifles. Kids! The GOP really doesn't care about saving lives with those type priorities. It's just another one of their ways to direct hate towards transgenders.
